KSM Trial Will Expose Liberal Idiocy!

[Bonestorm]

Un-fucking-believable! You are actually going to use the quote which explains why Holder made the decision to hold the tribunals at Gitmo instead of in civilian court, to show where they didn't say it was Holder's decision? What the fuck are you smoking today? And yes, I am aware the White House sometimes issues an official statement in writing, then they give it to the Press Secretary, who distributes it to the media. In this case, no... the White House did not release a written statement that it was Holder's decision. The Press Secretary stated it at a Press Conference, and then explained the reason for the decision, which you quoted. Got it, pinhead?

He didn't say it was Holder's decision. Can you link to the press conference so I can see the mystery quote you are talking about?

It's good to have you on record agreeing with me, that Obama is a liar and a fool. Thanks, and welcome aboard!

Thank you.

Oh I know... I already figured it out... If you are a liberal democrat president, you can use rendition all you like, and there is nothing extraordinary about it, but if you are a republican president, any rendition is a war crime. Got it!

Not at all. I was simply explaining the difference between rendition (what Reagan, GHWB did and Obama has not prohibited) and extraordinary rendition (which Clinton and GWB did and Obama has prohibited).

Yes, you are!

Thank you.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

He didn't say it was Holder's decision. Can you link to the press conference so I can see the mystery quote you are talking about?

You whiny ass liberal, aren't you capable of finding a video of yesterday's press briefing?
http://ochairball.blogspot.com/2011/04/white-house-press-briefing-april-5.html

At 21:00 they start asking about Holder's decision...
At 22:15 Carney literally SAYS it was Holder's decision...
At 22:38 Carney again repeats that it was Holder's decision!

 

[Bonestorm]

You whiny ass liberal, aren't you capable of finding a video of yesterday's press briefing?
http://ochairball.blogspot.com/2011/04/white-house-press-briefing-april-5.html

At 21:00 they start asking about Holder's decision...
At 22:15 Carney literally SAYS it was Holder's decision...
At 22:38 Carney again repeats that it was Holder's decision!

Thank you. I searched the transcript for "Holder" but didn't search for "Attorney General." Here's the relevant portion:

Q On the Justice Department decision to try folks at Gitmo before military commissions, the reaction to that has been critical from both sides -- the right saying you could have come to this decision a year ago; the left saying you promised you wouldn’t do this. What is your reaction, if you will, to the reaction?

MR. CARNEY: Well, look, what’s important is that the President believes that it is not helpful to remove Article III courts as a tool in our toolbox to prosecute terrorists. Because there is not the prospect in the short term of convincing Congress to do that, to remove those obstacles, then he believes it is essential to bring the accused to justice. It’s the right thing to do for the victims’ families and it’s the right thing to do, period.

So he is proceeding with a military commission process, which has been reformed in a way that makes it more effective and responsive. And he supports the Attorney General’s decision to proceed in that direction.

Q The Attorney General said he really didn’t like the idea of trying these folks before commissions. Does the President agree?

MR. CARNEY: The President agrees that Article III court -- it is not a good thing that Congress is preventing the use of Article III courts for this purpose. And he also agrees with the Attorney General’s decision that it is time -- given the circumstances we find ourselves in on this issue, it is time to move forward with prosecuting these suspects.

So, getting back to the point at hand, the President did indeed blame Congress and neither Holder nor Obama are lying.

 

[DamnYankee]

The Obama only lies sometimes. You can tell when he's doing it because his lips are moving.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Thank you. I searched the transcript for "Holder" but didn't search for "Attorney General." Here's the relevant portion:

So, getting back to the point at hand, the President did indeed blame Congress and neither Holder nor Obama are lying.

Nigey, of course they are going to blame it on Congress, but the decision was Holder's. They reiterated that several times. You are telling me WHY he came to the decision, and I have not argued that point, other than to say, that's part of the 'logistics' of getting things done that you say you're going to do. I thought Obama had all this charm and charisma, and could bring everyone together in agreement on these things? That's what we were told, back when we were living the Hope and Change Dream.

Personally, I think America is about sick and tired of this Administration laying the blame off on others for their feckless and incompetent leadership. TR had the plaque that said "The Buck Stops Here!" ....Obama's should read: "The Buck Stops Anywhere But Here!"

 

[Bonestorm]

Nigey, of course they are going to blame it on Congress, but the decision was Holder's. They reiterated that several times. You are telling me WHY he came to the decision, and I have not argued that point, other than to say, that's part of the 'logistics' of getting things done that you say you're going to do. I thought Obama had all this charm and charisma, and could bring everyone together in agreement on these things? That's what we were told, back when we were living the Hope and Change Dream.

I never disputed that the decision was Holder's. I took issue with this:

Again, that falls under "logistics" of getting 'er done! You see, this is a representative republic, and not a kingship. Before you shoot your mouth off about what you're going to do, you better make sure you're going to have the approval of Congress as well, because that's part of our system of government. I read Holder's statement, but I also read the official White House statement which said it was totally Holder's call, they didn't blame the mean old Congress. So who is lying, Holder or Obama?

They did blame Congress.

Personally, I think America is about sick and tired of this Administration laying the blame off on others for their feckless and incompetent leadership. TR had the plaque that said "The Buck Stops Here!" ....Obama's should read: "The Buck Stops Anywhere But Here!"

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you upset that Obama isn't taking credit for something that he didn't want to do? You want Obama to take credit for pursuing the policy that you support? What "buck" is there to stop in your mind? I can understand liberals being upset with him and calling bullshit on blaming but I don't see where there is any blame to be laid from your perspective.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I never disputed that the decision was Holder's.

"I don't see anything about it being Holder's call." - Post #79

"He didn't say it was Holder's decision." - Post #81

Yes you did, it's right there in your own words, pinhead!

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you upset that Obama isn't taking credit for something that he didn't want to do? You want Obama to take credit for pursuing the policy that you support? What "buck" is there to stop in your mind? I can understand liberals being upset with him and calling bullshit on blaming but I don't see where there is any blame to be laid from your perspective.

I expect Obama to go to the mat for what he believes in, not cave in to political pressure and blame Republicans for being a feckless incompetent leader. I've been warning you idiots since 2009 that this was going to be a clusterfuck, and you didn't listen. You have to think someone told Obama this wasn't going to be an easy thing to do when he was running around telling us he was going to close Gitmo and try the terrorists in federal court. I mean, if dumb old Dixie knows it, you'd think a legal scholar and his advisers would. Here these people have sat at Gitmo for two years, waiting for this to play out, when under Bush, they would have probably already had their day in court! And now we are passively told... Well, we wanted to do this, but the Republicans wouldn't let us, so we decided to try them at Gitmo, because that is what's for the best! And yes, it WAS Holders decision to do this, he didn't have to! If this is such a monumentally important issue to liberals, why not fight for it? There is a process, Obama said so himself on the health care law, so let's not get carried away and say Holder didn't have a choice. He had a choice, and he decided to go with the original Bush Administration idea of trying them at Gitmo.

 

[Bonestorm]

"I don't see anything about it being Holder's call." - Post #79

"He didn't say it was Holder's decision." - Post #81

Yes you did, it's right there in your own words, pinhead!

I didn't see the comment that you were referring to about Obama saying it was Holder's call and not blaming Congress at all. And I didn't see it because it doesn't exist. Carney quite clearly blamed Congress.

I expect Obama to go to the mat for what he believes in, not cave in to political pressure and blame Republicans for being a feckless incompetent leader. I've been warning you idiots since 2009 that this was going to be a clusterfuck, and you didn't listen. You have to think someone told Obama this wasn't going to be an easy thing to do when he was running around telling us he was going to close Gitmo and try the terrorists in federal court. I mean, if dumb old Dixie knows it, you'd think a legal scholar and his advisers would. Here these people have sat at Gitmo for two years, waiting for this to play out, when under Bush, they would have probably already had their day in court! And now we are passively told... Well, we wanted to do this, but the Republicans wouldn't let us, so we decided to try them at Gitmo, because that is what's for the best! And yes, it WAS Holders decision to do this, he didn't have to! If this is such a monumentally important issue to liberals, why not fight for it? There is a process, Obama said so himself on the health care law, so let's not get carried away and say Holder didn't have a choice. He had a choice, and he decided to go with the original Bush Administration idea of trying them at Gitmo.

Last I checked it was a Democratic Congress that passed the idiocy so Obama wasn't blaming Republicans, he was blaming the whole lot of them and mostly Democrats. And we'll never know if you are right that it would be a clusterfuck because it ain't never going to happen.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I didn't see the comment that you were referring to about Obama saying it was Holder's call and not blaming Congress at all. And I didn't see it because it doesn't exist. Carney quite clearly blamed Congress.

Well, we weren't discussing who was TO BLAME... we were discussing who's DECISION it was. You argued it was not Holder's decision, that Congress decided this, and I said it was Holder's decision according to the White House. We've gone back and forth all day on it, and as it turns out, I was correct. Yes, they quite clearly blamed Congress for Holder's DECISION! That's in line with what I stated previously, it was his call.

Last I checked it was a Democratic Congress that passed the idiocy so Obama wasn't blaming Republicans, he was blaming the whole lot of them and mostly Democrats. And we'll never know if you are right that it would be a clusterfuck because it ain't never going to happen.

You're absolutely correct, it was a Congress completely controlled by the party of the President, who campaigned promising to close Gitmo, and who's AG promised to try the 9/11 terrorists in Federal courts. If they didn't fulfill their promise, it is absolutely not the fault of the Republican party. And yes.... it's a clusterfuck officially now, nothing can be done about that.

 

[Bonestorm]

Well, we weren't discussing who was TO BLAME... we were discussing who's DECISION it was. You argued it was not Holder's decision, that Congress decided this, and I said it was Holder's decision according to the White House. We've gone back and forth all day on it, and as it turns out, I was correct. Yes, they quite clearly blamed Congress for Holder's DECISION! That's in line with what I stated previously, it was his call.

If you just said it was Holder's decision in the first instance without saying "they didn't blame the mean old Congress" then I wouldn't have taken issue with what you said.

You're absolutely correct, it was a Congress completely controlled by the party of the President, who campaigned promising to close Gitmo, and who's AG promised to try the 9/11 terrorists in Federal courts. If they didn't fulfill their promise, it is absolutely not the fault of the Republican party. And yes.... it's a clusterfuck officially now, nothing can be done about that.

I never said it was the fault of the Republican Party, nor, to my knowledge, did the President. That's what you said. And you comment that it's a clusterfuck is confusing. Are you saying that trying KSM in a military commission is a clusterfuck?

 

[Cancel 2018. 3]

Well, we weren't discussing who was TO BLAME... we were discussing who's DECISION it was. You argued it was not Holder's decision, that Congress decided this, and I said it was Holder's decision according to the White House. We've gone back and forth all day on it, and as it turns out, I was correct. Yes, they quite clearly blamed Congress for Holder's DECISION! That's in line with what I stated previously, it was his call.



You're absolutely correct, it was a Congress completely controlled by the party of the President, who campaigned promising to close Gitmo, and who's AG promised to try the 9/11 terrorists in Federal courts. If they didn't fulfill their promise, it is absolutely not the fault of the Republican party. And yes.... it's a clusterfuck officially now, nothing can be done about that.

to be fair dixie....if congress ties his hands and holder has no other choice but to try them in a military tribunal or not at all....is it really holder's decision?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

to be fair dixie....if congress ties his hands and holder has no other choice but to try them in a military tribunal or not at all....is it really holder's decision?

Yes, because there is always a recourse. If this is an issue so important to Obama and Company, they should be willing to fight for it, don't you think? Instead, they took the easy way out and blamed someone else for their feckless leadership. Democrats controlled Congress, they were well aware of Obama's position on closing Gitmo and on trying KSM in Federal court, yet they still couldn't get it done... not the Republicans fault, the Democrats wouldn't even support it!

See now Yurt, this is where you miss it... the Liberals learned a valuable lesson here, or they should have... When you get elected, you can't just make the shit happen that you want to happen because you won the election. You still have a Congress you have to work with, and even if it is your own party, you may not have the support to do what you said you would do. Presidents who are committed to their ideas and principles, wouldn't have simply given up on this, they would have appealed, or issued an Executive Order, or something... kept lobbying Congress and your own party members... asked for an injunction... something! Don't just throw in the towel and say you've "decided" that it's best to do what your predecessor did and blame that all on Congress.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

If you just said it was Holder's decision in the first instance without saying "they didn't blame the mean old Congress" then I wouldn't have taken issue with what you said.

I DID say it was Holder's decision, you argued with that... We've been through this already. Scroll up!

And no, they never blamed Congress for deciding, they clearly took responsibility for making the decision, and they gave the reason for their decision, which was to blame Congress.

I never said it was the fault of the Republican Party, nor, to my knowledge, did the President. That's what you said. And you comment that it's a clusterfuck is confusing. Are you saying that trying KSM in a military commission is a clusterfuck?

No, I said trying him in civilian court would be a clusterfuck, and it has been. Two years worth of clusterfucking, to be exact. Now that they finally realize what I said back in 2009, they throw the blame off on Congress (which they controlled) and admit that it's best we try them at Gitmo with military tribunals, as Bush was set to do.