Jobs vs. Work

Superfreak said:
Wow ditzie... you actually got him to respond with an answer that has already been given to you 50 posts ago. I already stated that decreasing pricing due to greater production efficiencies is fine. I already stated that both inflation and deflation can lead to recessions.

The point ditzie... is which is worse? Which is harder to control? Deflation is worse because of the nature of our economy. Period. If you have debt, deflation that is not caused by production efficiencies is going to kill you. Because as you figured out, the value of the dollar increases. If the value of your debt is increasing is that good or bad ditzie?

When you have layoffs the likes of which we are seeing, you get a drop off in demand, which leads to more layoffs, which leads to lower demand. When prices drop due weakening demand.... that is bad ditzie. Because then you have higher unemployment and typically lower wages for those still working (see UAW) at a time when debt is increasing in value.

Are you ever going to address this ditzie? Do you actually believe that we aren't in this cycle already?

This is the reason that deflation is worse. This is why we do everything we can to avoid it. Has there ever been a depression caused by inflation ditzie?

hint... the answer is no.... they are caused by severe deflation. It is the worst of environments.

Trying to play your idiotic word games with deflation and a deflationary spiral... a term I brought to your attention and you pretend was a part of your original argument.... is simply childish and moronic.
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Plus, you will always defend inflation because you and your corrupt friends like printing money for yourselves.
 
The point ditzie... is which is worse? Which is harder to control? Deflation is worse because of the nature of our economy. Period. If you have debt, deflation that is not caused by production efficiencies is going to kill you. Because as you figured out, the value of the dollar increases. If the value of your debt is increasing is that good or bad ditzie?
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Walter E. Williams would consider this a "nonsense argument." For example, answer the following... Which is best, Capitalism, Fascism, or Socialism? The correct answer is, none... it's a "nonsense argument!" Capitalism is best for ensuring freedom and prosperity, Fascism is best for providing governmental regulation and control, and Socialism is best in providing for the people.

We've already discussed debt, it doesn't matter because the debt is there whether you have inflation or deflation, or none of the above! Regardless of whether we have an inflationary or deflationary spiral, the value of debt will be an issue.

Let's clarify my position one more time (13th time) in this thread.... I understand and agree, deflationary spiral is bad... not a good thing to happen with the economy! I also understand (because I lived through it) inflationary spiral is bad... not a good thing to happen with the economy. Both of these phenomenon are extremes which can occur, and do have an impact on the economic conditions, and could put us into a depression condition. Are we clear on what I have stated? If not, please read this paragraph again, until you understand fully what I have said. I'm not (nor have I ever been) arguing that a deflationary spiral is good, no more than an inflationary spiral is good.

My ONLY point has been, "deflation" is not necessarily bad. SF agrees, when "deflation" is caused by advanced technology, production efficiency, etc... this is a good thing, it helps the consumer have a better standard of living. Subsequently, we have "inflation" and that has the opposite effect. Inflation decreases the value of money... you can't buy as much with the same dollar... this is not a good condition to have, whether it is "spiraling" or not. Weighing the benefits and pitfalls of each, in moderation (not extreme spirals), one would have to conclude it is marginally better to have a little deflation, than ANY inflation.
 
Darla said:
You know, it's so awful. I had zero idea of what that was, had never even heard of it, until I started visiting political message boards. And this conservative (!) man, spider, posted this whole thing about it and his feverish imaginations of what a bunch of "liberal lesbians" were up to. So I click on the link, and I got that floaty feeling in my head that I get when I feel like I'm going to pass out, and then I doubled over and clenched my legs together. This is exactly the same reaction I have whenever someone mentions that now, and it's always a conservative on a political messsage board!

And it's just sick, and beyond the pale. You have to be really f'd in the head to want to do that to a woman, and this is coming straight from violent porn, it has to be, and it's no shock to me that conservative men are obsessed with it!

I'm glad I got that out!
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Darla, you're such a square.:rolleyes:
 
Dixie said:
Walter E. Williams would consider this a "nonsense argument." For example, answer the following... Which is best, Capitalism, Fascism, or Socialism? The correct answer is, none... it's a "nonsense argument!" Capitalism is best for ensuring freedom and prosperity, Fascism is best for providing governmental regulation and control, and Socialism is best in providing for the people.

We've already discussed debt, it doesn't matter because the debt is there whether you have inflation or deflation, or none of the above! Regardless of whether we have an inflationary or deflationary spiral, the value of debt will be an issue.

Let's clarify my position one more time (13th time) in this thread.... I understand and agree, deflationary spiral is bad... not a good thing to happen with the economy! I also understand (because I lived through it) inflationary spiral is bad... not a good thing to happen with the economy. Both of these phenomenon are extremes which can occur, and do have an impact on the economic conditions, and could put us into a depression condition. Are we clear on what I have stated? If not, please read this paragraph again, until you understand fully what I have said. I'm not (nor have I ever been) arguing that a deflationary spiral is good, no more than an inflationary spiral is good.

My ONLY point has been, "deflation" is not necessarily bad. SF agrees, when "deflation" is caused by advanced technology, production efficiency, etc... this is a good thing, it helps the consumer have a better standard of living. Subsequently, we have "inflation" and that has the opposite effect. Inflation decreases the value of money... you can't buy as much with the same dollar... this is not a good condition to have, whether it is "spiraling" or not. Weighing the benefits and pitfalls of each, in moderation (not extreme spirals), one would have to conclude it is marginally better to have a little deflation, than ANY inflation.
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You are truly a complete fucking moron. I show you exactly why deflation is bad for debt and yet you again come out with your ignorant line of 'well gee golly, they is gunna have debt either way, so debt just dont matter'.

It does matter you moron. In a deflationary environment, wages DECREASE while the value of debt INCREASES. This is a very bad situation moron. In a deflationary environment, people are typically losing jobs as the economy constricts further. This is the environment we are in moron. We are not seeing deflation in home prices because of greater efficiencies. We are not seeing deflation in retail prices because of greater efficiencies. We are not seeing deflating prices in most commodities because of greater efficiencies.

We are seeing demand destruction in energy. We are seeing consumer demand drying up in retail. We are seeing mortgages under water in housing as home values drop. We are seeing layoffs in companies as they try to cut costs to survive. Those layoffs lead to further decreases in spending by consumers, further decreases in home values as foreclosures continue to increase, which in turn leads to further layoffs. We are in a deflationary spiral moron.

The only time deflation is ok is when it is due to greater efficiencies. That is not what we are seeing moron. When you look back at the definition of deflation, you will find that it is a continued decline in the prices of goods/services.

You have latched on to the fact that the dollar increases purchasing power during deflation and think that makes your point. It does not. Because the only people that benefit are those that have NO debt. Also, increased purchasing power doesn't mean anything for the economy when people refuse to spend the money.

Now what happens to debt in an inflationary environment ditzie? Typically wages go up in response to increases in inflation while the value of the debt decreases as the purchasing power of the dollar decreases. This does not hurt the consumer holding debt ditzie. Yes, if we enter hyperinflation then the consumers purchasing power will decrease to the point that demand will slow for non-necessities. What happens if demand decreases ditzie? Oh yeah, prices will begin to decline.

That is why it is preferred that we fight inflation vs. deflation ditzie. so quit trying to frame this as 'gee golly this is just minor deflation and not a spiral, because well my breakfast costs more than it did a year ago'.
 
But in an inflationary environment, money is worth less, so it that sense it's the same. The difference is people connected to the top like inflation because they use their connections to get more money all the time, whereas people with fixed wages just get screwed. This is really why superfreak is a big inflation advocate.
 
Darla said:
You know, it's so awful. I had zero idea of what that was, had never even heard of it, until I started visiting political message boards. And this conservative (!) man, spider, posted this whole thing about it and his feverish imaginations of what a bunch of "liberal lesbians" were up to. So I click on the link, and I got that floaty feeling in my head that I get when I feel like I'm going to pass out, and then I doubled over and clenched my legs together. This is exactly the same reaction I have whenever someone mentions that now, and it's always a conservative on a political messsage board!

And it's just sick, and beyond the pale. You have to be really f'd in the head to want to do that to a woman, and this is coming straight from violent porn, it has to be, and it's no shock to me that conservative men are obsessed with it!

I'm glad I got that out!
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Uh oh... What'd I miss?
 
Superfreak said:
someone mentioned ditzie and asshate wanting to fist each other.... Darla looked it up and somehow came to the conclusion that it was of course Republican men who wanted to do that to women or something like that.
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LOL

No big mouth, what I said is that I made the mistake, years ago now, probably in 2003! of clicking on a link that a right wing man had put up on a political message board, about that, when I didn't know what it was. That was the first time I had ever heard of it, and that every single time I have heard the word since, wihout fail, it was from a right wing male on a political message board.

Sorry, those are the facts!
 
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