James Lovelock: Why are we so afraid of nuclear power?

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Canceled
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The scientist, environmentalist, futurist, inventor and creator of the Gaia hypothesis James Lovelock has died, aged 103. Last October, he wrote the following piece about the importance of nuclear power. May he rest in peace.

The climate change summit in Glasgow will have one important part of the discussion missing: the role of nuclear power. It seems the government is in no mood for a discussion with the nuclear industry — every one of its applications to exhibit at the COP26 summit has been rejected. That’s a shame, because there are plenty of myths to be addressed.

We could discuss the lessons from the plant at Fukushima, seriously harmed by a tsunami in March 2011. Sometime later, two of the reactors overheated, burst and released a small quantity of radioactive material into the environment.

At the time of this event, my wife Sandy and I were at our home in St Louis, Missouri. Our daily paper, the Wall Street Journal, had a detailed account of the tsunami. It also carried an editorial expressing the hope that the world’s press would not go overboard and falsely imply that 20,000 people had been killed because of the nuclear accident rather than the tsunami. The editor’s wisdom was ignored. Instead, there remains a deep-rooted fear concerning the safety of nuclear power.

Such power has been with us long enough to prove its safety. A study was recently done by the Journal of Cleaner Production: nuclear power is shown to be safer even than renewable energy sources such as wind and solar. The comparison is measured in terms of deaths and injuries per terawatt hour of power produced. (In the UK, we have produced at least 3,030 terawatt hours of power since nuclear installations were introduced in 1956.) The death rate is at least five times smaller than in the coal and oil industries for comparable power production.

In France, nuclear energy has been used on an even larger scale, generating more than 70 per cent of the country’s electricity compared with our 18 per cent. France is neither penniless nor dangerously radioactive. It is also more economically resilient to disruptions in the energy market than the UK. As the country is Europe’s largest energy exporter, Emmanuel Macron can threaten (as he recently did) to cut the UK off from the 10,000 GWh of French nuclear-generated electricity which is needed to power some one million homes.

Sandy and I had the privilege of being shown around two nuclear installations in France: the nuclear reprocessing plant at La Hague and the factory near Avignon where fuel rods were enriched with plutonium. I had with me a personal radiation monitor which let me see for myself that these places were safe to work in.

At La Hague I remember seeing a pond, the size of a large swimming pool, in which nuclear fuel from the reactors was placed to cool off. The uranium rods were highly radio-active and looking into the water I could see the bright glow of Cherenkov radiation shining from them. They looked deadly. I asked our guide: ‘What would happen if someone swam in the pool?’

‘Nothing bad,’ he replied. ‘The radiation level at the top of the pool is negligible. Check it with your monitor.’

This I did. The surface water would provide a warm, safe and enjoyable swim — although the glowing area near the fuel rods would be lethal.

We were also taken to an underground chamber beneath which 25 years of nuclear waste had been stored as glass in stainless steel containers. Again, it was safely buried, and my monitor showed an entirely safe radiation level.

To continue our present civilisation, we need a steady supply of energy. We could easily have had it by now from safely controlled nuclear fission. I think fear has stopped us. And I mean fear of many kinds, ranging from the fear of looking foolish about our ignorance of nuclear physics, to the fear of nuclear war. Then there is the fear of losing wealth. If we go for nuclear as our source of power, what happens to the money we invested in coal and oil?

I lived and worked in London during the second world war. I saw and felt the consequences of living in a war zone. But when I visited Hiroshima, I shuddered when I saw pictures of those unfortunate humans in that city who were burnt to death in the glare of that first atomic bomb

It is difficult to talk about fear without being personal. This introspective expression of my thoughts occurs because during the first world war, my mother was a clerk at Middlesex town hall in London. Among her tasks was recording tribunals which judged the sincerity of conscientious objectors. She noted that few were given exemption from national service, but that frequently those exempted were Quakers. She decided when and if she had a son, he would become a Quaker.

So when my family moved to Brixton in 1926, I was enrolled aged six in the Quaker Sunday school. To my surprise and delight, the superintendent of the school was far more interested in cosmogony than in religion and his teachings fitted my emerging love of science. Best of all, he saw God as the still small voice within. That concept has been my touchstone ever since.

I was summoned to appear before a tribunal in early 1940. I was not then a Quaker, but became one soon after. I explained the reason for my pacifism and the three judges conferred to assess my honesty. After some discussion among themselves, they gave me an unconditional exemption from military service. I was fortunate to gain employment as a member of the scientific staff of the Medical Research Council at its institute in Hampstead.
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Not counting the Blitz, one of the worst periods of that war in terms of loss of British civilian life was during the attacks by the V-1 flying bomb. I can remember being woken up by the sound of rifle fire as well as bombs. It continued and we thought it must be an invasion. When the postman came, he said it was flying bombs, and there was nothing you could do about it. At this, my aunt Betty, who mistakenly thought that only planes with pilots could hurt her, cried out: ‘Thank God there is no one up there to drop the bombs on me!’ We all laughed, and the spell of fear was broken.

Today we need something like this to break the spell of nuclear fears. Just when V-1s were killing more of us Londoners in 1944 than any other weapon, a strange familiarity dispelled the fear. So it is with nuclear power. Every day, a huge nuclear reactor a million miles across swims across our sky. It will kill us all eventually, but for now we welcome the sunlight.
Written by James Lovelock

James Lovelock is the originator of Gaia theory and the author of Novacene: the Coming Age of Hyperintelligence.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-we-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power-2021-
 
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The scientist, environmentalist, futurist, inventor and creator of the Gaia hypothesis James Lovelock has died, aged 103. Last October, he wrote the following piece about the importance of nuclear power. May he rest in peace.

The climate change summit in Glasgow will have one important part of the discussion missing: the role of nuclear power. It seems the government is in no mood for a discussion with the nuclear industry — every one of its applications to exhibit at the COP26 summit has been rejected. That’s a shame, because there are plenty of myths to be addressed.

We could discuss the lessons from the plant at Fukushima, seriously harmed by a tsunami in March 2011. Sometime later, two of the reactors overheated, burst and released a small quantity of radioactive material into the environment.

At the time of this event, my wife Sandy and I were at our home in St Louis, Missouri. Our daily paper, the Wall Street Journal, had a detailed account of the tsunami. It also carried an editorial expressing the hope that the world’s press would not go overboard and falsely imply that 20,000 people had been killed because of the nuclear accident rather than the tsunami. The editor’s wisdom was ignored. Instead, there remains a deep-rooted fear concerning the safety of nuclear power.

Such power has been with us long enough to prove its safety. A study was recently done by the Journal of Cleaner Production: nuclear power is shown to be safer even than renewable energy sources such as wind and solar. The comparison is measured in terms of deaths and injuries per terawatt hour of power produced. (In the UK, we have produced at least 3,030 terawatt hours of power since nuclear installations were introduced in 1956.) The death rate is at least five times smaller than in the coal and oil industries for comparable power production.

In France, nuclear energy has been used on an even larger scale, generating more than 70 per cent of the country’s electricity compared with our 18 per cent. France is neither penniless nor dangerously radioactive. It is also more economically resilient to disruptions in the energy market than the UK. As the country is Europe’s largest energy exporter, Emmanuel Macron can threaten (as he recently did) to cut the UK off from the 10,000 GWh of French nuclear-generated electricity which is needed to power some one million homes.

Sandy and I had the privilege of being shown around two nuclear installations in France: the nuclear reprocessing plant at La Hague and the factory near Avignon where fuel rods were enriched with plutonium. I had with me a personal radiation monitor which let me see for myself that these places were safe to work in.

At La Hague I remember seeing a pond, the size of a large swimming pool, in which nuclear fuel from the reactors was placed to cool off. The uranium rods were highly radio-active and looking into the water I could see the bright glow of Cherenkov radiation shining from them. They looked deadly. I asked our guide: ‘What would happen if someone swam in the pool?’

‘Nothing bad,’ he replied. ‘The radiation level at the top of the pool is negligible. Check it with your monitor.’

This I did. The surface water would provide a warm, safe and enjoyable swim — although the glowing area near the fuel rods would be lethal.

We were also taken to an underground chamber beneath which 25 years of nuclear waste had been stored as glass in stainless steel containers. Again, it was safely buried, and my monitor showed an entirely safe radiation level.

To continue our present civilisation, we need a steady supply of energy. We could easily have had it by now from safely controlled nuclear fission. I think fear has stopped us. And I mean fear of many kinds, ranging from the fear of looking foolish about our ignorance of nuclear physics, to the fear of nuclear war. Then there is the fear of losing wealth. If we go for nuclear as our source of power, what happens to the money we invested in coal and oil?

I lived and worked in London during the second world war. I saw and felt the consequences of living in a war zone. But when I visited Hiroshima, I shuddered when I saw pictures of those unfortunate humans in that city who were burnt to death in the glare of that first atomic bomb

It is difficult to talk about fear without being personal. This introspective expression of my thoughts occurs because during the first world war, my mother was a clerk at Middlesex town hall in London. Among her tasks was recording tribunals which judged the sincerity of conscientious objectors. She noted that few were given exemption from national service, but that frequently those exempted were Quakers. She decided when and if she had a son, he would become a Quaker.

So when my family moved to Brixton in 1926, I was enrolled aged six in the Quaker Sunday school. To my surprise and delight, the superintendent of the school was far more interested in cosmogony than in religion and his teachings fitted my emerging love of science. Best of all, he saw God as the still small voice within. That concept has been my touchstone ever since.

I was summoned to appear before a tribunal in early 1940. I was not then a Quaker, but became one soon after. I explained the reason for my pacifism and the three judges conferred to assess my honesty. After some discussion among themselves, they gave me an unconditional exemption from military service. I was fortunate to gain employment as a member of the scientific staff of the Medical Research Council at its institute in Hampstead.

Not counting the Blitz, one of the worst periods of that war in terms of loss of British civilian life was during the attacks by the V-1 flying bomb. I can remember being woken up by the sound of rifle fire as well as bombs. It continued and we thought it must be an invasion. When the postman came, he said it was flying bombs, and there was nothing you could do about it. At this, my aunt Betty, who mistakenly thought that only planes with pilots could hurt her, cried out: ‘Thank God there is no one up there to drop the bombs on me!’ We all laughed, and the spell of fear was broken.

Today we need something like this to break the spell of nuclear fears. Just when V-1s were killing more of us Londoners in 1944 than any other weapon, a strange familiarity dispelled the fear. So it is with nuclear power. Every day, a huge nuclear reactor a million miles across swims across our sky. It will kill us all eventually, but for now we welcome the sunlight.
Written by James Lovelock

James Lovelock is the originator of Gaia theory and the author of Novacene: the Coming Age of Hyperintelligence.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-we-so-afraid-of-nuclear-power-2021-

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I'd love it if it weren't so generationally irresponsible. So many things could go wrong over the span of time - we don't really have waste containment or contingency plans for plants that go beyond a generation.

That's just factual. Read what happens if a plant goes unmanned for any stretch of time.
 
Yesterday;

th


From scintillating brilliance to odd nonsense and back again- a maverick genius.

Sad, sad loss.



Troll gate shut. The man deserves respect.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?192383-James-Lovelock-passes

Lovelock's nuclear statements came under the category of ' odd nonsense '
 
I'd love it if it weren't so generationally irresponsible. So many things could go wrong over the span of time - we don't really have waste containment or contingency plans for plants that go beyond a generation.

That's just factual. Read what happens if a plant goes unmanned for any stretch of time.

So what is Yucca Mountain then? That corrupt bastard Harry Reid did much to prevent it opening and stir up ignorance about nuciear waste storage
 
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So what is Yucca Mountain then? that corrupt bastard Harry Reid did much to prevent it opening and stir up ignorance about nuciear waste storage

Yucca Mountain?

We can't even comprehend the timeframes involved w/ the half-lives on waste. THAT is the solution? Yucca Mountain?

And you didn't address unmanned plants, which could happen under a variety of foreseeable circumstances - not to mention what we can't anticipate. We're talking about huge periods of time.
 
Yucca Mountain?

We can't even comprehend the timeframes involved w/ the half-lives on waste. THAT is the solution? Yucca Mountain?

And you didn't address unmanned plants, which could happen under a variety of foreseeable circumstances - not to mention what we can't anticipate. We're talking about huge periods of time.

Oh dear you really are hysterical and unbalanced. If it's such a crazy idea then why has Finland already opened an underground storage facility and France is in the planning stage? Of course it goes without saying that you were totally unaware of that.

France has had a nuclear reprocessing facility at Le Havre for many years but I doubt you've heard about that either. The US was planning to do the same, way back the 70s, but hysterical people like you stopped that from happening.

https://www.science.org/content/art...ore-nuclear-waste-can-it-survive-100000-years

With 58 nuclear power reactors producing nearly 72% of France’s electricity in 2018, France is one of the countries with the highest share of nuclear power in its energy production. Along with this energy, however, France’s nuclear fleet is also responsible for producing a significant amount of spent fuel and radioactive waste.

The strength of France’s national spent fuel policy, in addition to tight legislation and a strong regulatory body, can be attributed to the standardization of its nuclear fleet and the policy of recycling its spent fuel, French experts have said. This leads to an efficient and secure supply and a reduced radioactive waste burden.

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/frances-efficiency-in-the-nuclear-fuel-cycle-what-can-oui-learn
 
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Oh dear you really are hysterical and unbalanced. If it's such a crazy idea then why has Finland already opened an underground storage facility and France is in the planning stage? Of course it goes without saying that you were totally unaware of that.

France has had a nuclear reprocessing facility at Le Havre for many years but I doubt you've heard about that either. The US was planning to do the same, way back the 70s, but hysterical people like you stopped that from happening.

https://www.science.org/content/art...ore-nuclear-waste-can-it-survive-100000-years


With 58 nuclear power reactors producing nearly 72% of France’s electricity in 2018, France is one of the countries with the highest share of nuclear power in its energy production. Along with this energy, however, France’s nuclear fleet is also responsible for producing a significant amount of spent fuel and radioactive waste.

The strength of France’s national spent fuel policy, in addition to tight legislation and a strong regulatory body, can be attributed to the standardization of its nuclear fleet and the policy of recycling its spent fuel, French experts have said. This leads to an efficient and secure supply and a reduced radioactive waste burden.

https://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/frances-efficiency-in-the-nuclear-fuel-cycle-what-can-oui-learn

Congrats on not refuting a single point I brought up. You were the one who was focused on Yucca Mountain. I was just responding to that.

The larger point is that none of that matters - we're talking about huge periods of time. And you never even TRIED to address the idea of unmanned plants.

But there are similar risks w/ waste. We don't have any structures that would survive not just the time involved, but all of the potential earth changes and potential disasters that could happen over the huge periods of time involved.

Why not try refuting the basic ideas of THAT, instead of just giving example after example of more people behaving with generational irresponsibility - which is something humans excel at?
 
I'd love it if it weren't so generationally irresponsible. So many things could go wrong over the span of time - we don't really have waste containment or contingency plans for plants that go beyond a generation.

That's just factual. Read what happens if a plant goes unmanned for any stretch of time.

I can give you two examples from the US on nuclear power that show that the issues you bring up are so grossly overblown with hysteria as to be laughable.

The first is Three Mile Island (TMI). That was a worst case scenario for commercial nuclear power in the US. The operators at TMI did just about everything they could wrong and yet, even with a partial meltdown of the reactor nobody died, nobody got cancer. It was cheaper to clean up than the BP Deepwater Horizon oil spill was by almost half.
The second is the more obscure case of the US Army's small reactor, SL-1 in Idaho. There was an accident with it during refueling and the three enlisted involved died. Clean up took about a year, but was managed.

As for waste, so long as you let it sit for about six months to a year, you get rid of all the short-term unstable isotopes. After that, just having sufficient cooling water surrounding the fuel rods will prevent too much heat buildup and at the same time act as shielding for the low levels of radiation given off.
 
"Hysterical and unbalanced" - and you haven't refuted one single thing that I brought up.

This thread is a perfect example of why humanity is not ready to address the complexities and long-term problems posed by nukes.

Sorry.
 
I can give you two examples from the US on nuclear power that show that the issues you bring up are so grossly overblown with hysteria as to be laughable.

The first is Three Mile Island (TMI). That was a worst case scenario for commercial nuclear power in the US. The operators at TMI did just about everything they could wrong and yet, even with a partial meltdown of the reactor nobody died, nobody got cancer. It was cheaper to clean up than the BP Deepwater Horizon oil spill was by almost half.
The second is the more obscure case of the US Army's small reactor, SL-1 in Idaho. There was an accident with it during refueling and the three enlisted involved died. Clean up took about a year, but was managed.

As for waste, so long as you let it sit for about six months to a year, you get rid of all the short-term unstable isotopes. After that, just having sufficient cooling water surrounding the fuel rods will prevent too much heat buildup and at the same time act as shielding for the low levels of radiation given off.

Three Mile Island is nowhere NEAR a worst-case scenario. How can anyone even suggest that?

Look up what happens when a plant goes unmanned for a period of time.
 
I'd love it if nukes were a viable option. But we're like kids playing with matches. We're not nearly sophisticated enough for the power and long-term issues presented by nukes - as evidenced by the article in the OP, which is filled with generalities that don't hold up to even the most surface-level scrutiny.
 
Congrats on not refuting a single point I brought up. You were the one who was focused on Yucca Mountain. I was just responding to that.

The larger point is that none of that matters - we're talking about huge periods of time. And you never even TRIED to address the idea of unmanned plants.

But there are similar risks w/ waste. We don't have any structures that would survive not just the time involved, but all of the potential earth changes and potential disasters that could happen over the huge periods of time involved.

Why not try refuting the basic ideas of THAT, instead of just giving example after example of more people behaving with generational irresponsibility - which is something humans excel at?

You're an emotionally overwrought idiot, refute that! That you think you could ever hold a candle to the likes of James Lovelock is truly astonishing.
 
Congrats on not refuting a single point I brought up. You were the one who was focused on Yucca Mountain. I was just responding to that.

The larger point is that none of that matters - we're talking about huge periods of time. And you never even TRIED to address the idea of unmanned plants.

But there are similar risks w/ waste. We don't have any structures that would survive not just the time involved, but all of the potential earth changes and potential disasters that could happen over the huge periods of time involved.

Why not try refuting the basic ideas of THAT, instead of just giving example after example of more people behaving with generational irresponsibility - which is something humans excel at?

Actually, the risks with the waste are pretty minimal. Nuclear waste won't go critical. It gives off almost entirely alpha and beta radiation that is easily manageable. The heat generated by decay can be mitigated by sealing the rods in a cask with oxygen free water. That water also acts as a shield against the small amount of gamma radiation given off. The casks are damn near indestructible.
A plant that is decommissioned only needs being defuled and that fuel put in casks and stored somewhere like Yucca Mountain. The rest of the plant can sit unattended forever if that's how we want to play it. The only two long-term isotopes that would be present for the most part are Fe 60 and Ni 59. Iron (steel) and Nickel (Inconel) make up a big portion of the "stuff" in a reactor outside the fuel and control rods. Those two isotopes are fairly rare so they really aren't a major consideration here.

Yucca Mountain would not be an "unmanned" plant. It would be a storage facility that held spent fuel--eg., fuel rods that no longer can go critical. That is, the fuel there isn't capable of undergoing a nuclear reaction. It is simply various isotopes, many of which are unstable (eg., radioactive) and as they decay slowly emit alpha and beta particle radiation along with a small amount of gamma.
 
I'd love it if nukes were a viable option. But we're like kids playing with matches. We're not nearly sophisticated enough for the power and long-term issues presented by nukes - as evidenced by the article in the OP, which is filled with generalities that don't hold up to even the most surface-level scrutiny.

It's absolutely a viable option. It's only your near complete ignorance of things nuclear and how they work that keeps you and most people from accepting that.
 
I was going to ask him that but decided it was a waste of time.

Not for me, I was in naval nuclear power for years. I had to study the accidents and incident reports as part of my training. While I focused on industrial engineering in college, I did take several courses in nuclear engineering because I figured I already had the background.
 
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