If only we paid teachers more money...
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Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Tinhead, it's truly heart warming to know you take such pride in your GED.
LOL I love that you tards use the GED line. Means absolutely nothing to me. I have no shame in stopping wasting money at WSCU and creating my own opportunities in life. I don't have to brown nose any boss. I am my own boss. So call me GED all you want. I find it humorous that it's all you got. You are truly a lame opponent
I don't like doing it in bonuses for test scores, but we probably should pay good teachers more. The problem is more pay alone won't do much good. Some people are not cut out for the job. There needs to be more firings. Any company that was saddled with bad employees like our schools are would suffer.
cawacko
Well-known member
We had a ballot measure a few years back in CA that would allow teachers with two bad reviews in a row to be fired but it didn't pass in part because it got painted as anti-union.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Yea, yea, yea, you have a GED and you repair lawn mowers. Big deal.
Look dude, I'll explain this to you. You won't get it but I'll explain it anways. You're generalizing about educators and like all such generalizations their wrong. Educators, like any profession, are a cross slice of our culture. They come from many races, religions, ethnicities and political leanings from radicals, liberals, conservatives and even some wing nut idiots like you.
But the larger point here is that in education, like any service or commodity, you get what you pay for. You obviously hold educators in contempt and disregard the skills that they have and do not believe in compensating these people like the professionals they are. Well that's ok if all we want is a bunch of people with GED's running lawn mower businesses, like you.
Most of us want a little more then that from our educational system. We want to attract top notch people by paying competitive salaries because unlike you, we value education.
Sammy Jankis
Was it me?
Wrong. Most of what we think we're getting is a function of branding. often time "premium" or "designer" bullshit is just the same old thing with a famous label on it. This is the truth.
Instead of bailing out teachers, maybe we should figure out how to revive our economy so normal taxes will be sufficient to pay teachers. of course, this may clash with illuminati objective of destroying america, so they may just print more money again for teachers this time, so everyone will keep ignoring our descent into banker tyranny.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Well the problem with that String is you're only half right. By that I mean, you can't fire underperforming parents who aren't cut out for the job and there are vastly more of those then there are bad teachers and it's not a stretch of the imagination to figure they have more influence on the educational performance of those kids then any educator does.
Let me ask you from your own perspective. In your own public education, how may truly bad teachers did you have? My guess would be very, very few, if any. I personally can only remember a few gym teachers and coaches who sucked as educators.
Now having said that, let me ask you this. How many parents of kids you went to school with cared more for the local football team then their kids education? How many parents just didn't give a rats ass about how well their kids performed on math or science as long as they made the basketball team?
Then let me ask you which do you think is the bigger problem in our educational system, those parents or our teachers?
The truth is parents have a hell of a lot more to do with the problems of our educational system then our teachers do and the problem with that is you can't fire those parents. You can't hold them accountable for the piss poor way they raise their kids where education is concerned.
Now I can certainly understand Tinheads resentment towards educators cause based upon his thinking and the quality of his GED, his teachers must have really sucked. That or his parents didn't give a shit about education either. I wonder which it was?
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Would you hold your self to that standard in your job. Do you think it would be ok for any employer to fire any employee based upon 2 bad reviews? Boy I know a bunch of corporations who would love that. They could get rid of all those dedicated employees who've worked for them for 10 or 20 years and all the raises and benefits they've earned over the years they wouldn't be stradled with either. You willing to walk that talk and apply that standard to your line of work?
cawacko
Well-known member
I got laid off last year and I had zero bad reviews. In fact I had been told I was doing quite well. But when the commercial real estate market went to hell they laid off 10 of the 12 people in my group. I would damn near give my left nut to have tenure where they can't fire you. Completely unheard of though.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Yup sure is but tenure in education is important. Can you imagine how many unemployed biology and sex education teachers there would be in Alabama if they didn't have tenure?
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
The problem is... we are NOT getting what we pay for in our education system.
I think we spend way too much money, primarily because it is overly burdened with administrative personnel. Look at the private sector, they don't need a school board, superintendent, admin staff etc... for each and every school district.
I think we also spend way too much on teachers who can't teach. Tenure needs to be re-addressed. It is way too hard to fire bad teachers.
LOL all the Mottley dude can do is attack me. Can't refute that teachers are overpaid for lousy work. The children get more and more stupid and we pay the teachers more for their failure and then they have the nerve to blame taxpayers, meanwhile government employees make far more money than their private sector counterparts.
Good luck getting a libtard to even address these issues. they're too busy calling people racists while they support illegal activity
Good luck getting a libtard to even address these issues. they're too busy calling people racists while they support illegal activity
I don't know; I understand some of what you & Superfreak are saying, but I have still always felt that teaching is a vastly underpaid profession.
Engineering is a highly paid profession. Because of that, it attracts a lot of very intelligent, very ambitious candidates.
Teaching in general is pretty low on the pay scale. Many who end up in the profession either do it as a labor of love, or as a default option. If teaching was better paid, I think the whole culture around the profession would change, and would improve the quality of our education immeasurably.
It's probably one of the most important jobs in the country, if you weigh all of the factors & consequences in...
Engineering is a highly paid profession. Because of that, it attracts a lot of very intelligent, very ambitious candidates.
Teaching in general is pretty low on the pay scale. Many who end up in the profession either do it as a labor of love, or as a default option. If teaching was better paid, I think the whole culture around the profession would change, and would improve the quality of our education immeasurably.
It's probably one of the most important jobs in the country, if you weigh all of the factors & consequences in...
Engineers get paid a bunch because they're liable for the quality of their product. Teachers? Not so much. they can continually produce more and more failures and yet, they have no liability. they have no consequences for doing a shitty job
Cancel 2016.2
The Almighty
On the whole, I would say many teachers are underpaid in terms of salary, but overpaid in terms of pension benefits. I think it has more to do with the waste in the system as a whole, versus needing to put more money into education.
There should not be ANY public pension plan that allows for someone to receive retirement benefits prior to age 60. (there really shouldn't be any on the private side either)
You can't fire parents so that means you can't fire teachers? That's stupid. All teachers have a mix of kids with good and bad parents. No one is arguing that they be fired based on the grades of one child.
Several, more than handful, maybe two handfuls. They were not the majority, but they wasted a lot of valuable time. It seemed in my schools they must have had a policy of pushing them into teaching electives, since a large number of the bad ones were in those areas. I can remember one bad grade school teacher, though, and at least one other in a core class.
Most teachers do a good job and they should be paid well. Instead they insist on subsidizing bad teachers.
I would not know how many kids had bad parents. How could I not being a part of their household. Frankly, my mom did not spend a lot of time with us on school though she did take interest. She bought us a set of encyclopedias and anytime we had a question she said, "go look it up." Seems lazy but learning how to find the answers is the best sort of education.
Parents are the most important part of their child's education. So what? Teachers have a classroom not one student (who by the way, is graded and whose grades can be more greatly influenced by one bad parent than a teacher). A patient is the most important person in his own health. But if everybody on one drug or going to one doctor starts dropping dead there is reason to suspect there may be causes outside the patient.
There is no reason we cannot review a teachers work, reward the high performing and fire the poorly performing. There is nothing so unusual about their job that they must be free from performance reviews and the consequences, that just about everyone faces.
Frankly, I have always liked getting performance reviews. It lets you know where you stand and gives feedback that is very useful in making improvements.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
I think your missing my point here. There is a tendency to irrationally hold educators to a higher standard then we do other professionals. I was not implying that "It's all parents fault so don't fire teachers." I'm saying that were quick to blame educators for lack of our students performance even when it's not their fault. You can stuff a school full of Harvard PhD's and it won't mean shit in terms of this kids performance if they all come from families who's parents are mouth breathers that don't value education.
I mean look at Tinhead. Do you think he'd benefit from a Harvard education? He'd still be a lawn mower repair man!!
LOL all mott can do is attack me. LOL Yeah, the teachers I had in public school must have sucked because I point out that teachers are cheating on standardized test so they can benefit. Yeah, my teachers must have sucked because I point out the failure of our education system
Fuck off, you idiot.
Fuck off, you idiot.