ICE agents committing assaults and other crimes

[T. A. Gardner]

OK. If you want to use III D 2 then you have to identify what the threat was. What reasonable officer would see her as a threat? Did she have a weapon? There were 5 officers there and she weighs maybe 120 pounds. Are ICE officers scared of their own shadows? Why were two officers peacefully talking to her if she was such a threat? Why did she suddenly become a threat when the third officer stepped forward?

They need to give reasonable time to step back if they ordered her to do so. Less than five seconds is not a reasonable time.

She was noncompliant and right up in the officer's faces. That makes her a threat. A reasonable officer would see her as one when:

* She made threatening or otherwise hostile statements.
* Refused to follow verbal commands and instructions.
* Was close enough to physically engage immediately.
* Attempted to physically control the officer's arm when he reached out towards her to control the situation.

I don't care what her size or weight is. The officers don't know if she has a concealed weapon, is trained in something like martial arts, or is simply there to create a distraction. They aren't psychic so all they have is her proximity, words, and actions to go on.

What is "reasonable time?" Why is less than five seconds not reasonable? Five seconds is an eternity in a fight. How many chances should she be given to comply?

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

She was noncompliant and right up in the officer's faces. That makes her a threat. A reasonable officer would see her as one when:

* She made threatening or otherwise hostile statements.
* Refused to follow verbal commands and instructions.
* Was close enough to physically engage immediately.
* Attempted to physically control the officer's arm when he reached out towards her to control the situation.

I don't care what her size or weight is. The officers don't know if she has a concealed weapon, is trained in something like martial arts, or is simply there to create a distraction. They aren't psychic so all they have is her proximity, words, and actions to go on.

What is "reasonable time?" Why is less than five seconds not reasonable? Five seconds is an eternity in a fight. How many chances should she be given to comply?

OMFG. You are letting your being in a cult dictate to your brain.
She was maced in five seconds. The decision to mace her was made sooner because you see the other 2 agents being pulled back so they won't get maced.

What threatening or hostile statement? Words are not a threat. She doesn't tell them she is going to kill them. She tells the agents they are "fucking shit." If the third agent made a verbal command it requires a reasonable time. Five seconds is NOT reasonable and no one other than a cult member like you would consider it enough time. She says something back to the officer but it is impossible to hear what it is. There is no threatening move. The two agents have shields. She has nothing in her hands. She doesn't attempt to control the agent's arm. You can see her hand move back to her hair when the third agent is talking to her. The third agent doesn't have incredibly long arms. It is unlikely he could have touched her based on his position and her hands could not touch him based on where they are in the video.

But the real kicker here is if the third agent did tell her to move back then he clearly violated the DHS policy on use of force which requires he provide a reasonable time to comply.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

OMFG. You are letting your being in a cult dictate to your brain.
She was maced in five seconds. The decision to mace her was made sooner because you see the other 2 agents being pulled back so they won't get maced.

She put her hands on the officer.

What threatening or hostile statement? Words are not a threat. She doesn't tell them she is going to kill them. She tells the agents they are "fucking shit." If the third agent made a verbal command it requires a reasonable time. Five seconds is NOT reasonable and no one other than a cult member like you would consider it enough time. She says something back to the officer but it is impossible to hear what it is. There is no threatening move. The two agents have shields. She has nothing in her hands. She doesn't attempt to control the agent's arm. You can see her hand move back to her hair when the third agent is talking to her. The third agent doesn't have incredibly long arms. It is unlikely he could have touched her based on his position and her hands could not touch him based on where they are in the video.

But the real kicker here is if the third agent did tell her to move back then he clearly violated the DHS policy on use of force which requires he provide a reasonable time to comply.

Verbal threats legally exist.

What Counts as a Threat According to the Law?

Not all alarming statements are illegal. This guide explains the objective legal standards courts use to decide when communication crosses the line into a threat.

legalclarity.org

If the officer tells you to step back and you don't and then he reaches out to push you back with minimal force and you respond by grabbing his arm, you get nuked with pepper spray. It's that simple. She fucked up and physically engaged the officer. End of story.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

She put her hands on the officer.

Really? When?

Verbal threats legally exist.

What Counts as a Threat According to the Law?

Not all alarming statements are illegal. This guide explains the objective legal standards courts use to decide when communication crosses the line into a threat.

legalclarity.org

Verbal threats exist but they have to be an actual threat. Telling someone they are a piece of shit is not a verbal threat.

If the officer tells you to step back and you don't and then he reaches out to push you back with minimal force and you respond by grabbing his arm, you get nuked with pepper spray. It's that simple. She fucked up and physically engaged the officer. End of story.

How long are the arms of that officer? Where did she get pushed? The video doesn't show his arm. Her hands are by her hair at the point you claim she would have pushed back or grabbed him.



Here is the when the third agent moved forward. You can see she has a pink phone in her right hand and her left hand is up by her hair.




Here is two seconds later when the agents move backward. Notice the location of both hands.

Here is the officer spraying her with mace. His left arm is fully extended with shoulders squared up and the mace is about 18" from her face and body. His other arm is not 18" longer than the one holding the canister.


You are so deep in a cult you make shit up so you don't have to admit that you are in a cult. End of story.

 

[IBDaMann]

I guess we will just leave your questions buried.

... exactly what leftists do best.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

... exactly what leftists do best.

That appears to be a grave statement on your part.

 

[IBDaMann]

That appears to be a grave statement on your part.

... unless you wish to resurrect the original topic.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

... unless you wish to resurrect the original topic.

Kicking the bucket down the road doesn't guarantee raising the issue.

 

[IBDaMann]

Kicking the bucket down the road doesn't guarantee raising the issue.

It would certainly spawn some new ideas.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

It would certainly spawn some new ideas.

The dates on the marker would indicate there is nothing new there.

 

[Truth Detector]

This thread is to document attacks by ICE agents that appear to not be in response to any threat.

Here is a video of a Priest standing less than 2' off a public sidewalk being shot in the head with a pepper ball while praying. There is clearly no threat and the sidewalk is public space.

This is the original video posted by the person that took it.

https://bsky.app/profile/mskellymhayes.bsky.social%2Fpost%2F3lzad2f5gnk2n

View: https://bsky.app/profile/mskellymhayes.bsky.social/post/3lzad2f5gnk2n

Liar. This thread is an attempt to lie, gaslight and pretend that violent leftists are not the problem.

But alas, you are a brainless, lying leftist loon on steroids so there is that.

 

[Truth Detector]

This thread is a testimony of how repugnant, dishonest, unhinged and stupid the left can get.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Liar. This thread is an attempt to lie, gaslight and pretend that violent leftists are not the problem.

But alas, you are a brainless, lying leftist loon on steroids so there is that.

Hi Poopiehead. I see you can't contribute by showing pictures of Portland on fire so you decided to just come here and act like a 2 year old.

 

[IBDaMann]

The dates on the marker would indicate there is nothing new there.

Hardly. It's a virtual placenta of novelties. You just need to get the ball rolling with a mere episiotomy of effort.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Hardly. It's a virtual placenta of novelties. You just need to get the ball rolling with a mere episiotomy of effort.

You seem to have forgotten where you are whistling past.

 

[IBDaMann]

You seem to have forgotten where you are whistling past.

It's a virtual nursery ward of burgeoning epiphanies, giving birth to the very genius coming to light.

 

[Nordberg]

She was noncompliant and right up in the officer's faces. That makes her a threat. A reasonable officer would see her as one when:

* She made threatening or otherwise hostile statements.
* Refused to follow verbal commands and instructions.
* Was close enough to physically engage immediately.
* Attempted to physically control the officer's arm when he reached out towards her to control the situation.

I don't care what her size or weight is. The officers don't know if she has a concealed weapon, is trained in something like martial arts, or is simply there to create a distraction. They aren't psychic so all they have is her proximity, words, and actions to go on.

What is "reasonable time?" Why is less than five seconds not reasonable? Five seconds is an eternity in a fight. How many chances should she be given to comply?

Non compliant? That's an old police excuse. She was no threat and arguing for her rights. She did no crime.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Non compliant? That's an old police excuse. She was no threat and arguing for her rights. She did no crime.

She wasn't arrested.