Hillary & Iraq

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Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq resolution. Why is that forgiven by her supporters? Has there been a more definitive issue in our time on what it means to be progressive in terms of foreign policy?

Every Dem who voted yay on that measure took the easy way out. It really speaks to the character of all of them. I'm tired of hearing "we made the best decision with the intel we believed at the time." And that goes for every pundit & politician on the right who either instigated the conflict or cheered it on from the sidelines.

It was NOT the best decision. There was never a clear & present danger to our homeland - never even a credible threat. The people responsible need to be held accountable.
 
When I watch the debates it seems to me Hillary is far ahead of Sanders when it comes to experience and knowledge regarding foreign policy. However Sanders continually hits on the point you mentioned of the Iraq vote.

Mott has mentioned he vowed to never vote for anyone who supported the Iraq War. I'm sure he's probably not the only one who thought something similar. From an outsider (or right wing) perspective it seems a tough predicament in the sense of not wanting to support Hillary for that reason yet thinking Bernie is just too far left for one's taste.
 
cawacko said:
When I watch the debates it seems to me Hillary is far ahead of Sanders when it comes to experience and knowledge regarding foreign policy. However Sanders continually hits on the point you mentioned of the Iraq vote..
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And rightly so. Experience and knowledge count for nothing if neither leads to the correct decisions.
 
Hillary's judgement is awful. It's not just Iraq, it's repeating the same stupidity for Libyan "regime change" -and getting the same resulting failed terrorist state.

See "tic toc on Libya" memo, released as one of her Emails. It was generated by Jake Sullivan.. Her "Friends of Syria" initiative was bogus also.


tic toc on Libya
 
Thing1 said:
Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq resolution. Why is that forgiven by her supporters? Has there been a more definitive issue in our time on what it means to be progressive in terms of foreign policy?

Every Dem who voted yay on that measure took the easy way out. It really speaks to the character of all of them. I'm tired of hearing "we made the best decision with the intel we believed at the time." And that goes for every pundit & politician on the right who either instigated the conflict or cheered it on from the sidelines.

It was NOT the best decision. There was never a clear & present danger to our homeland - never even a credible threat. The people responsible need to be held accountable.
Click to expand...

Hillary couldn't have easily voted no to the resolution, considering she spent most of the 90's in her husbands White House where he and his admin. whined about Saddam and WMD for most of his administration, well into 2000.....
 
NOVA said:
Hillary couldn't have easily voted no to the resolution, considering she spent most of the 90's in her husbands White House where he and his admin. whined about Saddam and WMD for most of his administration, well into 2000.....
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That doesn't mean she should have trusted Bush or given him the power to invade. It wouldn't have been easy for any of the Democrats who had Presidential ambitions to oppose that measure - but it would have been courageous & principled, and better for any of them in the long run. They all bowed to political pressure, and didn't want their patriotism questioned. They should be embarassed.

And beyond that, they should be held accountable. That vote alone should make every progressive who supports Hillary think twice about it.
 
cawacko said:
When I watch the debates it seems to me Hillary is far ahead of Sanders when it comes to experience and knowledge regarding foreign policy. However Sanders continually hits on the point you mentioned of the Iraq vote.

Mott has mentioned he vowed to never vote for anyone who supported the Iraq War. I'm sure he's probably not the only one who thought something similar. From an outsider (or right wing) perspective it seems a tough predicament in the sense of not wanting to support Hillary for that reason yet thinking Bernie is just too far left for one's taste.
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This election is a total conundrum for me. I want Sanders to best Hillary - but I do think he's too far left, and don't see voting for him in a general. On the GOP side, I could vote for Kasich in a second, but would absolutely not vote for Trump or Cruz under any circumstances.

Hillary v. Trump would go well beyond the "lesser of 2 evils" for me in terms of voting, which I'd say characterized quite a few previous elections. I wouldn't want to be responsible for either one being President, even on the tiny level that one vote represents. I'd really have to go 3rd party, just for my own conscience.
 
Thing1 said:
That doesn't mean she should have trusted Bush or given him the power to invade. It wouldn't have been easy for any of the Democrats who had Presidential ambitions to oppose that measure - but it would have been courageous & principled, and better for any of them in the long run. They all bowed to political pressure, and didn't want their patriotism questioned. They should be embarassed.

And beyond that, they should be held accountable. That vote alone should make every progressive who supports Hillary think twice about it.
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I see you point Thing, but she just as easily have been a believer that Iraq had WMD, her husband certainly did throughout his term.....
The ones that voted for the resolution and learned the truth later, saying they were lied to is what I find disingenuous....they should have just maned up and taken
responsibility for their votes....not make lame excuses....

Courage and being principled is not very common in Washington....but blaming others is very common.....
 
Thing1 said:
Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq resolution. Why is that forgiven by her supporters? Has there been a more definitive issue in our time on what it means to be progressive in terms of foreign policy?

Every Dem who voted yay on that measure took the easy way out. It really speaks to the character of all of them. I'm tired of hearing "we made the best decision with the intel we believed at the time." And that goes for every pundit & politician on the right who either instigated the conflict or cheered it on from the sidelines.

It was NOT the best decision. There was never a clear & present danger to our homeland - never even a credible threat. The people responsible need to be held accountable.
Click to expand...


"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

Plenty of Democrats that now claim Bush lied said similar things and said them BEFORE Bush was ever President.
 
Thing1 said:
That doesn't mean she should have trusted Bush or given him the power to invade. It wouldn't have been easy for any of the Democrats who had Presidential ambitions to oppose that measure - but it would have been courageous & principled, and better for any of them in the long run. They all bowed to political pressure, and didn't want their patriotism questioned. They should be embarassed.

And beyond that, they should be held accountable. That vote alone should make every progressive who supports Hillary think twice about it.
Click to expand...


Many that support Hillary could care less about what she's done or said. Their motivation centers around one factor and it has nothing to do with the job.
 
Thing1 said:
Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq resolution. Why is that forgiven by her supporters? Has there been a more definitive issue in our time on what it means to be progressive in terms of foreign policy?

Every Dem who voted yay on that measure took the easy way out. It really speaks to the character of all of them. I'm tired of hearing "we made the best decision with the intel we believed at the time." And that goes for every pundit & politician on the right who either instigated the conflict or cheered it on from the sidelines.

It was NOT the best decision. There was never a clear & present danger to our homeland - never even a credible threat. The people responsible need to be held accountable.
Click to expand...

Many of her supporters are concerned only with having a female President.
 
Conservative65 said:
Many of her supporters are concerned only with having a female President.
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That explains Carly's successful campaign...
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Thing1 said:
Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq resolution. Why is that forgiven by her supporters? Has there been a more definitive issue in our time on what it means to be progressive in terms of foreign policy?

Every Dem who voted yay on that measure took the easy way out. It really speaks to the character of all of them. I'm tired of hearing "we made the best decision with the intel we believed at the time." And that goes for every pundit & politician on the right who either instigated the conflict or cheered it on from the sidelines.

It was NOT the best decision. There was never a clear & present danger to our homeland - never even a credible threat. The people responsible need to be held accountable.
Click to expand...

Because they love the (D). That's literally all they care about at the end of the day.
 
cawacko said:
When I watch the debates it seems to me Hillary is far ahead of Sanders when it comes to experience and knowledge regarding foreign policy. However Sanders continually hits on the point you mentioned of the Iraq vote.

Mott has mentioned he vowed to never vote for anyone who supported the Iraq War. I'm sure he's probably not the only one who thought something similar. From an outsider (or right wing) perspective it seems a tough predicament in the sense of not wanting to support Hillary for that reason yet thinking Bernie is just too far left for one's taste.
Click to expand...

Mott will vote the party line as reliably as a hobo will drink some whiskey.
 
Thing1 said:
Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq resolution. Why is that forgiven by her supporters? Has there been a more definitive issue in our time on what it means to be progressive in terms of foreign policy?

Every Dem who voted yay on that measure took the easy way out. It really speaks to the character of all of them. I'm tired of hearing "we made the best decision with the intel we believed at the time." And that goes for every pundit & politician on the right who either instigated the conflict or cheered it on from the sidelines.

It was NOT the best decision. There was never a clear & present danger to our homeland - never even a credible threat. The people responsible need to be held accountable.
Click to expand...

Congress has abrogated their powers for years. Resolutions like these are a copout for Congress. It lets them pat themselves on the back if it goes well Iraq 1 and run for the tall weeds when it doesn't Iraq 2.

From the get go we should have demanded a declaration of war against Iraq
 
Thing1 said:
Well, that's partisans on both sides. I hope the implication here isn't that only hardcore Dems are party-first.
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I'm U.S. first but have been deemed by those hardcore Dems as party first. I'm not a party. I support an ideology.
 
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