Fracking is Our Future!
- Thread starter signalmankenneth
- Start date
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Kenny baby, I have a lot of time for you as you are well aware. But there is so much bullshit spouted about fracking that you could run a few power stations on it. I frankly cannot understand why you would prefer to import oil from Canada and the Middle East when you have a virtually limitless resource on your doorstep.
signalmankenneth
Verified User
Fracking pollutes ground water for one and we need to be wrapping up the use of fossil fuels within the next 25 years, if not sooner?!!
[h=2]Fracking Gone Wrong: Finding a Better Way[/h]http://earthjustice.org/our_work/ca...a-better-way?gclid=CK-N07rU27ECFQSDnQodtwsAKQ
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Fracking has suffered from a bad press but then most of the supposed problems are just media hysteria. Gas fired power stations produce less than a third as much CO2 as coal and cost a fraction as much as wind, hydro, tidal, solar or even nuclear power. It just seems inconceivable to me that a country capable of putting an SUV on Mars is terrified of fracking.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2010/08/20/epas-fracking-hysteria/
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I was just wondering who would be the first to post a clip from Gasland, might have guessed it would be you!
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The level of scientific understanding is just abysmal, fracking is a well proven technology and as long as it is monitored properly is very safe. We had some of the tired old canards over here as well about earthquakes. Turns out these so called earthquakes were in the region of 2.3-2.4 which is about as powerful as a herd of elephants farting. The other main canard is about water aquifers which is even more crazy as the gas bearing shale is usually thousands of metres below the water table and separated by non porous rocks. iF that wasn't the case then the gas would have escaped eons ago!!
“ The best cure for a sluggish mind is to disturb its routine. ”
— William H. Danforth
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You're saying that fracking to supply fuel for gas fired generating stations is cheaper than hydro, wind, solar and tidal generation? Can you get me some real facts on that? I've been in the power industry for 45 years and I have never heard of anything like that. Fracking is dangerous. Texas is now experiencing earthquakes in places where earthquakes have never happened before and no explanation can be given for these recent ones. Fracking is a suspected culprit and with all the other serious problems it has, the main one being ground water contamination, it should be stopped immediately.
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Gas fired power stations are undoubtedly a very cheap way to provide electricity as the infrastructure costs are so much lower. In the UK, we had the so called Dash for Gas and built a large number of such power stations. Provided that you have a cheap source of gas it is without doubt about the cheapest and quickest way to get extra capacity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash_for_Gas
My experience with gas turbines has been with the GE frame 5 and frame 7 turbine/generators. What you say is completely untrue. Gas turbines require extensive inspections at 500 hours and complete overhauls at 1,000 hours. They are terribly labor intensive and the parts all come from GE and they are PROUD of them. A close friend/engineer of mine from England says the situation is exactly the same there. Gas turbines at best are used for peaking power loads because they are so tremendously expensive to operate and maintain. I know of none that are designed for day in and day out operations. They would come apart in just a few months, also by design and as reflected in their histories.
So this is actually your area of expertise?
Then that would mean that this:
and this:
are complete loads of horseshit? Thanks for the informed clarification.
Bijou, the very assertion that any bought fuel is cheaper than the wind, hydro, tidal and solar energies is totally ludicrous from the get go. All of those "fuels" are free. Couple all that with the very low RPM's of these machines and the tremendously low maintenance/operations costs and the ignorance clearly triples real quick. Although I have 45 years experience in the industry these things I could figure out in about the 4th grade.
Some things are obvious, even to a fourth grader. However, around here, obvious reality isn't enough to convince a bought-and-brainwashed shill. Remember where that load of horseshit came from.
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As the article states 28% of the UK electricity now comes from power stations using gas as a fuel. This consists of two percent of an older generation gas turbine technology and 26% of the newer CCGT technology. If it was really such a flaky technology I very much doubt that we would have got to the stage where nearly 1/3 of UK electricity comes from it. In fact, they are in the process of building some more at present, maybe we don't have your problems because the CCGT gas turbines are made by Siemens and Alstom and are a much newer generation of turbines.
http://www.power-technology.com/projects/pembroke-combined-cycle-power-plant/
You needn't even look to the UK to find out about the technology as a state-of-the-art combined-cycle natural gas power plant is currently being built in Florida at the moment.
http://www.power-technology.com/projects/next-generation-clean-energy-center/
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It seems to me that you have great difficulty in understanding the difference between infrastructure costs and running costs. Yes, wind is free but capturing it is most definitely not and because of its variability you have to have alternatives on hand to provide a consistent baseload. You also have neglected to mention the huge costs required to provide a 21st century national power transmission grid. Another factor you have chosen to ignore is that wind turbines are most definitely not maintenance free, I wonder just how long some of those turbines will actually last especially ones in hostile and extremely windy areas. I would love to see the actual figures for MTBF and how they stand up compared to the manufacturers figures. You refer to rpm but just because the turbine blades rotate slowly doesn't mean that the gearbox does as well, there has been a high failure rate of wind turbine gearboxes as this report sets out in detail.
As for the others, are there really that many rivers left in the US that haven't been dammed already and what about the environmental concerns associated with damming rivers? Solar and tidal are still experimental and will be for at least the next decade or so, they hold promise for the future but not now. Geothermal is an exciting technology which is to all intents and purposes risk free but there is much work to be done there as well.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...d-farms-will-need-super-grid-to-take-off.html
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Some things are obvious, even to a fourth grader. However, around here, obvious reality isn't enough to convince a bought-and-brainwashed shill. Remember where that load of horseshit came from.
The only problem is that common sense isn't that common and in your case is almost entirely lacking. Let me ask you a question, have you ever spent any time doing any background reading on energy production? I don't just mean blogs and single issue websites, I just wonder why people feel that they can discuss any topic without even knowing the basics.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Get your power company to convert your energy source from fossil fuels (coal, most likely) to alternative, and then examine your bill.
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If wind power is so cheap why does it always have to be subsidised?
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
Yeah, we've got a way to go, yet, on alternative energies. I hope that everyone here will invest in them, and make sensible choices which help them to develop enough so that they can eventually replace fossil fuels. Until then, I am not willing to wreck the world's economy over this silliness.