Fascinating observation

Yakuda

Yakuda

Verified User
I have recently been reading through the Federalist Papers and with all that going on in America these days I remembered something i had read back when I started. This is a brief excerpt from Federalist No. 1 written Alexander Hamilton that I think is worth considering:

On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security if liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interests can never be separated: and that the dangerous ambition more often lurk behind the specious mask for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatness number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.

Which party in America today claims to care more about the rights of the people? Which party in America today seems to care more about the size and scope and efficiency of govt? Which was the party of doge? Thoughts?
 
I was trying to copy the words from a hard copy of the papers but I noticed some typos on my part. Here is it again from an online souce for accuracy

On the other hand, it will be equally forgotten that the vigor of government is essential to the security of liberty; that, in the contemplation of a sound and well-informed judgment, their interest can never be separated; and that a dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people than under the forbidden appearance of zeal for the firmness and efficiency of government. History will teach us that the former has been found a much more certain road to the introduction of despotism than the latter, and that of those men who have overturned the liberties of republics, the greatest number have begun their career by paying an obsequious court to the people; commencing demagogues, and ending tyrants.

guides.loc.gov

Research Guides: Federalist Papers: Primary Documents in American History: Full Text of The Federalist Papers

The Federalist Papers were a series of essays written by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay under the pen name "Publius." This guide compiles Library of Congress digital materials, external websites, and a print bibliography.
guides.loc.gov guides.loc.gov
 
Ross Dolan said:
No matter what Hamilton may have suggested back 250 years ago...anyone who does not see Trump as an exis tential danger to our Republic right now...is either nuts, stupid, or both.

The MAGA morons obviously are both.
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Frank! This colder, windy weather, not being able to golf, is giving you serious TDS.
Close your eves, take 5 deep breaths and and remember, Trump is your president... :)
 
in the interest of brevity, I would chop all those words down to "be on your guard against leaders who profess zeal for liberty but may be using it as mask for ambition."
 
Ross Dolan said:
No matter what Hamilton may have suggested back 250 years ago...anyone who does not see Trump as an exis tential danger to our Republic right now...is either nuts, stupid, or both.

The MAGA morons obviously are both.
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Oh Francis do you need a diaper change? Hamilton had you fucking cockroaches pegged that long ago. Proof positive that cockroaches will always be around.
 
zymurgy said:
in the interest of brevity, I would chop all those words down to "be on your guard against leaders who profess zeal for liberty but may be using it as mask for ambition."
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Its more than ambition its tyranny as Hamilton points at the end. The men with that level zeal start out as demagogues but end up as tyrants.
 
Yakuda said:
Its more than ambition its tyranny as Hamilton points at the end. The men with that level zeal start out as demagogues but end up as tyrants.
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He ended up being exactly what he warned against

the articles of confederation never led to such abuse....yet his newer stronger centralized government did.
 
zymurgy said:
in the interest of brevity, I would chop all those words down to "be on your guard against leaders who profess zeal for liberty but may be using it as mask for ambition."
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Yep. An apt description of the right today. Especially the Trump cult. The MAGATs who yearn for that mythical yesteryear of glory and freedom. Freedom they think they’ve lost. So, in that zeal, they vote for a charismatic person that promises to return to that mythical time, when in fact he personifies that personal ambition. Authoritarian wannabe.

Hamilton was a Federalist. For a strong central government. Just like left of center people today and the opposite of the right who wants government out of pretty much everything.

Hamilton was correct and we’re seeing the results of that blind zeal.
 
zymurgy said:
He ended up being exactly what he warned against

the articles of confederation never led to such abuse....yet his newer stronger centralized government did.
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You haven't read the federalist papers? He address that. The articles of confederation were shit.
 
Yakuda said:
You haven't read the federalist papers? He address that. The articles of confederation were shit.
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they were shit at waging wars. they were not shit at preventing an abusive government.

he created the national bank, federal assumption of state debts, and a national system of credit - all mistake in my book
 
zymurgy said:
they were shit at waging wars. they were not shit at preventing an abusive government.

he created the national bank, federal assumption of state debts, and a national system of credit - all mistake in my book
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Doesnt change the fact that his words are truth and one party is more like him than the other.
 
Yakuda said:
Their whole schtick is they care about the rights of the people yet they couldnt care less about that
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Sad cultists try to cite something that they think makes their case, yet it’s just the opposite.

Gardner is the king of that. You’re a close second.

Hamilton is saying the opposite of what you want and think him to say.
 
RB 60 said:
Frank! This colder, windy weather, not being able to golf, is giving you serious TDS.
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TDS is something the MAGA morons have dreamed up. It isn't real. Trump richly deserves all the contempt and scorn we have for his policies (such as they are) and demeanor. Sorry you are not up to seeing that.

RB 60 said:
Close your eves, take 5 deep breaths and and remember, Trump is your president... :)
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TRUMP IS MY PRESIDENT. I have never denied that in any form whatsoever. When he was elected, I mentioned that I was sorry the electorate had made that mistake...but I honor the tradition of accepting him as my president.'

You do that same thing when a Democrat is elected, right?
 
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