Citizens: How much should the government spend and control over their lives?

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Citizens: How much should the government spend and control over their lives?

i'm starting to see the old obama, cloward and piven line again...imo...it is hyperbole to the extent of being, likely, dishonest. i say likely, because i don't know obama's true intentions.

the struggle between the left and right seems to be about how much government control should we allow over our private lives. some on the right believe the bedroom is not private, some on the left believe our thoughts are not private. some on the right believe we should spend next to or nothing to help people, some on the left believe only the government or the government is the main party responsible for providing us our daily needs.

so how much?
 
the less money the feds have, the less control over our lives they have. end of story.

very true. and part of the struggle of our emerging country. the reality now is, the feds have vast sums of our money and can force us (meaning states) do pretty much anything through bribery. interestingly, the US has an official position against bribery in foreign nations, yet, our federal government has no problem bribing the very states that exist under their umbrella.

the quandary is, what state is going to reject millions of dollars from the feds? the only way i see diminishing federal power is by lowering federal taxes. i don't think that is ever going to happen.

let me ask you something STY....without a strong federal government, including military, would america be as secure as it is today?
 
very true. and part of the struggle of our emerging country. the reality now is, the feds have vast sums of our money and can force us (meaning states) do pretty much anything through bribery. interestingly, the US has an official position against bribery in foreign nations, yet, our federal government has no problem bribing the very states that exist under their umbrella.

the quandary is, what state is going to reject millions of dollars from the feds? the only way i see diminishing federal power is by lowering federal taxes. i don't think that is ever going to happen.

let me ask you something STY....without a strong federal government, including military, would america be as secure as it is today?

the military is a constitutionally defined power and would always be funded, though my experience in the marine corps tells me that we could cut the defense budget by 25% and not lose any strength. The only way to seriously cut the federal budget would be to repeal the 16th Amendment. I don't see that as a possibility though, since way too many still view the federal government as a benevolent entity whose only desire is to protect and nurture us.
 
the military is a constitutionally defined power and would always be funded, though my experience in the marine corps tells me that we could cut the defense budget by 25% and not lose any strength. The only way to seriously cut the federal budget would be to repeal the 16th Amendment. I don't see that as a possibility though, since way too many still view the federal government as a benevolent entity whose only desire is to protect and nurture us.

i agree about the military. our budget for the military right now is far to high. it needs to be reduced by a significant percentage.

i agree and don't agree with you on the 16th. it was a major power grab by the feds, but it was ratified. the reason it was ratified is because a strong central government can keep a nation unified. note the word can. at the time the world seemed unstable to many nations, and the US sought to build itself up as a strong nation by that amendment. not agreeing or disagreeing with it, just stating the facts. here is something i think about, what if the 16th did not exist in 1941?
 
i agree about the military. our budget for the military right now is far to high. it needs to be reduced by a significant percentage.

i agree and don't agree with you on the 16th. it was a major power grab by the feds, but it was ratified. the reason it was ratified is because a strong central government can keep a nation unified. note the word can. at the time the world seemed unstable to many nations, and the US sought to build itself up as a strong nation by that amendment. not agreeing or disagreeing with it, just stating the facts. here is something i think about, what if the 16th did not exist in 1941?
it was ratified by a small group of 'elitists' capitalizing on the fears of an ignorant and cowardly populace. All it did was redefine what federalism meant.
 
so no safety net of any kind?

a federal safety net is full of bureaucracy, red tape, waste and fraud, and leaves a gaping abyss for those in need to fall through and suffer. That money stolen by a federal tax could be put to a much better use in safety nets if it's done at the state, or even county level, with way less fraud, waste, and red tape.
 
Citizens: How much should the government spend and control over their lives?

i'm starting to see the old obama, cloward and piven line again...imo...it is hyperbole to the extent of being, likely, dishonest. i say likely, because i don't know obama's true intentions.

the struggle between the left and right seems to be about how much government control should we allow over our private lives. some on the right believe the bedroom is not private, some on the left believe our thoughts are not private. some on the right believe we should spend next to or nothing to help people, some on the left believe only the government or the government is the main party responsible for providing us our daily needs.

so how much?

It appears some folks fail to understand the reason or cause of government interference.

Let's take ObamaCare as an example. Consider all the rules and regulations applied to insurance companies. The interference in private insurance plans; what insurance plan one must have, what it must cover, etc. So people ask, "Why all the control?"

The same applies to welfare. Why all the regulations? You must do 'this'. You can't do 'that'. If you live with someone the benefits are cut which, by the way, leads directly to families being broken apart. One can't get a part-time, temporary job without the threat of losing all their benefits or jumping through hoops of regulations.

So, why all the regulations? Why does the government want to micro-manage people's lives?

Well, the answer is quite simple. Those opposed to any government help insist on rules and regulations and interference. While they begrudgingly vote for social programs they try to make them difficult to obtain and as intrusive as possible. The motto is, “If we’re going to help you we’re going to make your life miserable.”

(SmarterThanYou;981894)a federal safety net is full of bureaucracy, red tape, waste and fraud, and leaves a gaping abyss for those in need to fall through and suffer.

Again, the reason is all the restrictions/conditions placed on helping people. Governments with a philosophical aversion to helping deliberately make programs inefficient in order for them to fail. They don’t want the programs to work.

Look at North Carolina. Just recently (last year) they have permitted people to attend school while collecting unemployment. Prior to that the attitude was, “why pay people to go to school?” Businesses paying into UI would rather have people stay at home and let the program run out rather than let people improve their chances of employment by them increasing their education.

That money stolen by a federal tax could be put to a much better use in safety nets if it's done at the state, or even county level, with way less fraud, waste, and red tape.

Have you ever lived in a small town? Do you think local programs would treat people equally?

One tends to forget society had years to try local initiatives. From SS to welfare over one thousand, nine hundred (1900) years passed before governments had to take over.

The solution is a guaranteed income. No favorites. No special conditions. No loopholes. No red tape. No holes to fall through.

On that note it's siesta time. :)
 
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the less money the feds have, the less control over our lives they have. end of story.

And with less money comes less government oversight of shady business practices, which in turn allows for greater corporate chicanery and greed, which enriches the 1% but screws over the other 99%.
 
Have you ever lived in a small town? Do you think local programs would treat people equally?
I was born and raised in a little podunk town of 3,000 people. the cost of living in that small little town was so low that the small local gov help was all anyone ever needed.

One tends to forget society had years to try local initiatives. From SS to welfare over one thousand, nine hundred (1900) years passed before governments had to take over.
wrong. state and federal governments saw a way to increase taxes, thereby increasing their budgets, and make enough regulations that most people would just forego the 'help' and make other arrangements for their future security.

The solution is a guaranteed income. No favorites. No special conditions. No loopholes. No red tape. No holes to fall through.

On that note it's siesta time. :)
hopefully you'll be smarter when you wake up, because you appear to be lacking in the knowledge at this point.
 
And with less money comes less government oversight of shady business practices, which in turn allows for greater corporate chicanery and greed, which enriches the 1% but screws over the other 99%.
so what you're saying is that we need huge government to oversee the shady and criminalistic corporations owned by the 1%. What do we have now? and who owns that huge government now? who benefits from that huge government? do you really think you are going to change anything with a huge government that gets money from the 1%, thereby those in huge government get huge money from that 1%?
 
I was born and raised in a little podunk town of 3,000 people. the cost of living in that small little town was so low that the small local gov help was all anyone ever needed.

No one lacked basic necessities? Sounds like you lived in Utopia.

wrong. state and federal governments saw a way to increase taxes, thereby increasing their budgets, and make enough regulations that most people would just forego the 'help' and make other arrangements for their future security.

That's because some governments do not believe in helping others. IE: The Republicans

hopefully you'll be smarter when you wake up, because you appear to be lacking in the knowledge at this point.

And just what "knowledge" are you referring to, oh Wise One?

You shouldn't take your name (STY) seriously.
 
No one lacked basic necessities? Sounds like you lived in Utopia.

That's because some governments do not believe in helping others. IE: The Republicans

And just what "knowledge" are you referring to, oh Wise One?

You shouldn't take your name (STY) seriously.

there are none so blind as those who refuse to see. when relevant experience matters little to people who only wish to see what they feel, knowledge cannot be gained, no matter how often it's offered. your naivete will cause you problems later. hope you survive them.
 
Free-Ride-5903.jpg


Obama's utopia
 
there are none so blind as those who refuse to see. when relevant experience matters little to people who only wish to see what they feel, knowledge cannot be gained, no matter how often it's offered. your naivete will cause you problems later. hope you survive them.

My so-called naivete has served me very well.

It's like listening to people complain about others taking advantage of, say, welfare, when the numbers are insignificant compared to the whole. While the abusers are a minuscule portion of the population it's constantly brought up by politicians as a major problem. It plays on the jealousy and envy of those who think someone is getting something for nothing. If the pittance the government offers in the form of help is such a great deal it's strange we don't see millions of people quitting their job, selling their home and applying for welfare.

Sometimes reality has no place in people's illogical beliefs.
 
a federal safety net is full of bureaucracy, red tape, waste and fraud, and leaves a gaping abyss for those in need to fall through and suffer. That money stolen by a federal tax could be put to a much better use in safety nets if it's done at the state, or even county level, with way less fraud, waste, and red tape.

That myth has been debunked thousands if not millions of times yet here it is again. Sheeesh
 
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