Can we discuss the FAIR TAX?

D

Dixie - In Memoriam

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I have posted about the Fair Tax several times now, and I continue to get the same results... Posters will respond by immediately poo-pooing the idea of the Fair Tax, then proceed to articulate their reasoning for keeping the IRS and the burdensome cumbersome monstrosity of a tax system we currently have. They want to say... tax the rich some more... tax corporations some more... let's have a Flat Tax... let's modify the tax code... let's do this, let's do that... but no one wants to discuss the Fair Tax. I challenge you, don't respond to this thread with the typical dismissal of the Fair Tax and reiteration of your idea for how we should reform the current system, I want to hear legitimate arguments AGAINST the Fair Tax! WHY are you opposed to it? WHY do you think it would be a bad idea? Let's put this out there on the table and have an adult conversation, and go over the legitimate objections.

From my perspective, I have examined the Fair Tax extensively, as well as listened to the objections, and honestly, the only legitimate explanation I can find for not supporting the Fair Tax, is centered around political power. It takes power from the Federal government and gives it back to the people, plain and simple. Those who seek MORE Federal governmental power, are vehemently opposed to the Fair Tax, because it takes so much power from the government. Other than this, I can find no justifiable reason to oppose it.

Here's a link to all the information explaining the Fair Tax:
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_main

All concerns and questions are answered, just take a look and click on a few links, and you can discover all you need to know. When you have become informed, please come here and post legitimate concerns or tell us why you still oppose it. I don't care to debate whether this is better than a Flat Tax, or whether we need to do this or that with the current system, the current system is fucked beyond repair, and we need to scrap it now. The economic boon we would realize from implementing the Fair Tax, would be unprecedented in our history, as well as the transfer of power from the government to you, the people. It's NOT regressive, it is progressive. It doesn't burden working class families, and it is revenue neutral. It changes the entire dynamic of taxation in America, from a system based on your labor and income, to a system based on consumption and spending. We are a consumer-driven society, and such a system would be very beneficial in bringing America back from the abyss in terms of deficits and economics in general.

I think it is an idea who's time has come.
 
It is touched on in the "Is the Flat Tax dead" or whatever its called. But the focus is the Flat Tax.

I think I am the only vote for the Fair Tax in that thread. I think it is an excellent way to provide revenue for the gov't, improve the economy, and take the politics out of taxation.
 
WinterBorn said:
It is touched on in the "Is the Flat Tax dead" or whatever its called. But the focus is the Flat Tax.

I think I am the only vote for the Fair Tax in that thread. I think it is an excellent way to provide revenue for the gov't, improve the economy, and take the politics out of taxation.
Click to expand...

The problem with the Fair tax is that it is highly REGRESSIVE relative to the Flat tax with standard deduction.

IF you provide exemptions to the fair tax for 'necessities', then you simply reintroduce the politics back into taxation.
 
Superfreak said:
The problem with the Fair tax is that it is highly REGRESSIVE relative to the Flat tax with standard deduction.

IF you provide exemptions to the fair tax for 'necessities', then you simply reintroduce the politics back into taxation.
Click to expand...

Since the Fair Tax rebates the tax paid on the income spent up to the poverty level, there is no need for exemptions on the necessities. Its built in.
 
Superfreak said:
The problem with the Fair tax is that it is highly REGRESSIVE relative to the Flat tax with standard deduction.

IF you provide exemptions to the fair tax for 'necessities', then you simply reintroduce the politics back into taxation.
Click to expand...

It is absolutely NOT regressive. The pre-bate takes care of that. Every family is paid in advance, for any tax they will pay for basic necessities. There is no "politics" involved, it would be based on the HHS numbers for what is the current poverty level for various sized families. There are no "exemptions" with a pre-bate, we can easily address the needs with the pre-bate, as opposed to having a cashier determine whether something purchased is for a basic need.
 
Dixie said:
It is absolutely NOT regressive. The pre-bate takes care of that. Every family is paid in advance, for any tax they will pay for basic necessities. There is no "politics" involved, it would be based on the HHS numbers for what is the current poverty level for various sized families. There are no "exemptions" with a pre-bate, we can easily address the needs with the pre-bate, as opposed to having a cashier determine whether something purchased is for a basic need.
Click to expand...

Also, the consumption tax is only on new goods and services. If your income is low, you buy a used washer & dryer and a used car. They will be tax exempt.
 
Superfreak said:
The problem with the Fair tax is that it is highly REGRESSIVE relative to the Flat tax with standard deduction.

IF you provide exemptions to the fair tax for 'necessities', then you simply reintroduce the politics back into taxation.
Click to expand...

From the link above:

"The FairTax is regressive and shifts the tax burden onto lower and middle income people" The truth: The FairTax actually eliminates and reimburses all federal taxes for those below the poverty line. This is accomplished through the universal prebate and by eliminating the highly regressive FICA payroll tax. Today, low and moderate income Americans pay far more in FICA taxes than income taxes. Those spending at twice the poverty level pay a FairTax of only 11.5 percent -- a rate much lower than the income and payroll tax burden they bear today. Meanwhile, the wealthy pay the 23 percent retail sales tax on their retail purchases.
Under the federal income tax, slow economic growth and recessions have a disproportionately adverse impact on lower-income families. Breadwinners in these families are more likely to lose their jobs, are less likely to have the resources to weather bad economic times, and are more in need of the initial employment opportunities that a dynamic, growing economy provides. Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow and frustrates attempts at upward mobility through hard work and savings, thus harming low-income taxpayers the most.
In contrast, the FairTax dramatically improves economic growth and wage rates for all, but especially for lower-income families and individuals. In addition to receiving the monthly FairTax prebate, these taxpayers are freed from regressive payroll taxes, the federal income tax, and the compliance burdens associated with each. They pay no more business taxes hidden in the price of goods and services, and used goods are tax free.
How can the FairTax generate lower net tax rates for everyone and still pay for the same real government expenditures? The answer is two-fold. Firstly, the tax base is dramatically widened by including consumer spending from the underground economy (estimated at $1.5 trillion annually), and by including illegal immigrants, those who escape their fair share today through loopholes and gimmicks. In addition, 40 million foreign tourists a year will become American taxpayers as consumers here. Secondly, not everyone's average net tax burden falls. For households whose major economic resource is accumulated wealth, the FairTax will deliver a net tax hike compared to the current system.
Consider, for example, your typical billionaire, of which America now has more than 400. These fortunate few are invested primarily in equities on which they pay taxes at a 15 percent rate, whether their income comes in the form of capital gains or dividends. In addition to having the income from their wealth taxed at a low rate, the principal of their wealth is completely untaxed either directly or indirectly. Assuming they and their heirs spend only the income earned on the wealth each year, the tax rate today is 15 percent. In contrast, under the FairTax, the effective tax rate is 23 percent. Hence, the very wealthy will pay more taxes when the FairTax is enacted. In a nutshell, those who spend more will pay more but low, moderate and middle income taxpayers will benefit from the greatest gains in reduced tax liabilities.
 
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