Can Black Children Be Friends With White People?

cawacko

Well-known member
This article was in the NY Times today. A couple of liberals I follow on Twitter posted about it. Reading this article doesn't make me real hopeful for the future but hopefully most don't see the world like this. Here is what one wrote on twitter:


“I will teach my boys to have profound doubts that friendship with white people is possible.” (this is from the article)

Teaching your four year-old not to be friends with white people isn’t woke; it’s racist. The left needs to defend, not attack, multiethnic democracy.






Can My Children Be Friends With White People?

By*EKOW*N.*YANKAH
November 11, 2017

My oldest son, wrestling with a 4-year-old’s happy struggles, is trying to clarify how many people can be his best friend. “My best friends are you and Mama and my brother and …” But even a child’s joy is not immune to this ominous political period. This summer’s images of violence in Charlottesville, Va., prompted an array of questions. “Some people hate others because they are different,” I offer, lamely. A childish but distinct panic enters his voice. “But I’m not different.”

It is impossible to convey the mixture of heartbreak and fear I feel for him. Donald Trump’s election has made it clear that I will teach my boys the lesson generations old, one that I for the most part nearly escaped. I will teach them to be cautious, I will teach them suspicion, and I will teach them distrust. Much sooner than I thought I would, I will have to discuss with my boys whether they can truly be friends with white people.

Meaningful friendship is not just a feeling. It is not simply being able to share a beer. Real friendship is impossible without the ability to trust others, without knowing that your well-being is important to them. The desire to create, maintain or wield power over others destroys the possibility of friendship. The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s famous dream of black and white children holding hands was a dream precisely because he realized that in Alabama, conditions of dominance made real friendship between white and black people impossible.

History has provided little reason for people of color to trust white people in this way, and these recent months have put in the starkest relief the contempt with which the country measures the value of racial minorities. America is transfixed on the opioid epidemic among white Americans (who often get hooked after being overprescribed painkillers — while studies show that doctors underprescribe pain medication for African-Americans). But when black lives were struck by addiction, we cordoned off minority communities with the police and threw away an entire generation of black and Hispanic men.

Likewise, despite centuries of exclusion and robust evidence of continuing racism, minority underemployment is often couched in the language of bad choices and personal responsibility. When systemic joblessness strikes swaths of white America, we get an entire presidential campaign centered on globalization’s impact on the white working class. Even the nerve of some rich or visible African-Americans to protest that America, in its laws and in its police, has rarely been just to all has been met with the howls of a president who cannot tolerate that the lucky and the uppity do not stay in their place.

As against our gauzy national hopes, I will teach my boys to have profound doubts that friendship with white people is possible. When they ask, I will teach my sons that their beautiful hue is a fault line. Spare me platitudes of how we are all the same on the inside. I first have to keep my boys safe, and so I will teach them before the world shows them this particular brand of rending, violent, often fatal betrayal.

Let me assure you that my heartbreak dwarfs my anger. I grew up in a classic Midwestern college town. With all its American faults, it was a diverse and happy-childhood kind of place, slightly dull in the way that parents wish for their children. If race showed in class lines, school cliques and being pulled over more often, our little Americana lacked the deep racial tension and mistrust that seem so hard to escape now.

What’s surprising is that I am heartbroken at all. It is only for African-Americans who grew up in such a place that watching Mr. Trump is so disorienting. For many weary minorities, the ridiculous thing was thinking friendship was possible in the first place. It hurts only if you believed friendship could bridge the racial gorge.

Of course, the rise of this president has broken bonds on all sides. But for people of color the stakes are different. Imagining we can now be friends across this political line is asking us to ignore our safety and that of our children, to abandon personal regard and self-worth. Only white people can cordon off Mr. Trump’s political meaning, ignore the “unpleasantness” from a position of safety. His election and the year that has followed have fixed the awful thought in my mind too familiar to black Americans: “You can’t trust these people.”

It is not Mr. Trump himself who has done this. Were it not for our reverence for money, Mr. Trump would be easily recognized as the simple-minded, vulgar, bigoted blowhard he is. It is certainly not the neo-Nazis marching on Charlottesville; we have seen their type before. Rather, what has truly broken my heart are the ranks of Mr. Trump’s many allies and apologists.

Mr. Trump’s supporters are practiced at purposeful blindness. That his political life started with denying, without evidence, that Barack Obama is American — that this black man could truly be the legitimate president — is simply ignored. So, too, is his history of housing discrimination, his casual conflation of Muslims with terrorists, his reducing Mexican-Americans to murderers and rapists. All along, his allies have watched racial pornography, describing black America as pathological. Yet they deny that there is any malice whatsoever in his words and actions. And they dismiss any attempt to recognize the danger of his wide-ranging animus as political correctness.

But the deepest rift is with the apologists, the “good” Trump voters, the white people who understand that Mr. Trump says “unfortunate” things but support him because they like what he says on jobs and taxes. They bristle at the accusation that they supported racism, insisting they had to ignore Mr. Trump’s ugliness. Relying on everyday decency as a shield, they are befuddled at the chill that now separates them from black people in their offices and social circles. They protest: Have they ever said anything racist? Don’t they shovel the sidewalk of the new black neighbors? Surely, they say, politics — a single vote — does not mean we can’t be friends.

I do not write this with liberal condescension or glee. My heart is unbearably heavy when I assure you we cannot be friends.

The same is true, unfortunately, of those who hold no quarter for Mr. Trump but insist that black people need to do the reaching out, the moderating, the accommodating. Imagine the white friend during the civil rights era who disliked blacks’ being beaten to death but wished the whole thing would just settle down. However likable, you could not properly describe her as a friend. Sometimes politics makes demands on the soul.

Don’t misunderstand: White Trump supporters and people of color can like one another. But real friendship? Mr. Trump’s bruised ego invents outrageous claims of voter fraud, not caring that this rhetoric was built upon dogs and water hoses set on black children and even today the relentless effort to silence black voices. His macho talk about “law and order” does not keep communities safe and threatens the very bodies of the little boys I love. No amount of shoveled snow makes it all right, and too many imagine they can have it both ways. It is this desperation to reap the rewards of white power without being so much as indicted that James Baldwin recognized as America’s criminal innocence.

For African-Americans, race has become a proxy not just for politics but also for decency. White faces are swept together, ominous anxiety behind every chance encounter at the airport or smiling white cashier. If they are not clearly allies, they will seem unsafe to me.

Barack Obama’s farewell address encouraged us to reach across partisan lines. But there is a difference between disagreeing over taxes and negotiating one’s place in America, the bodies of your children, your humanity. Our racial wound has undone love and families, and ignoring the depths of the gash will not cause it to heal.

We can still all pretend we are friends. If meaningful civic friendship is impossible, we can make do with mere civility — sharing drinks and watching the game. Indeed, even in Donald Trump’s America, I have not given up on being friends with all white people. My bi-ethnic wife, my most trusted friend, understands she is seen as a white woman, even though her brother and father are not. Among my dearest friends, the wedding party and children’s godparents variety, many are white. But these are the friends who have marched in protest, rushed to airports to protest the president’s travel ban, people who have shared the risks required by strength and decency.

There is hope, though. Implicitly, without meaning to, Mr. Trump asks us if this is the best we can do. It falls to us to do better. We cannot agree on our politics, but we can declare that we stand beside one another against cheap attack and devaluation; that we live together and not simply beside one another. In the coming years, when my boys ask again their questions about who can be their best friend, I pray for a more hopeful answer.


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/...mp.html?referer=https://t.co/3w1en0a3ei?amp=1
 
This article was in the NY Times today. A couple of liberals I follow on Twitter posted about it. Reading this article doesn't make me real hopeful for the future but hopefully most don't see the world like this. Here is what one wrote on twitter:


“I will teach my boys to have profound doubts that friendship with white people is possible.” (this is from the article)

Teaching your four year-old not to be friends with white people isn’t woke; it’s racist. The left needs to defend, not attack, multiethnic democracy.






Can My Children Be Friends With White People?

By*EKOW*N.*YANKAH
November 11, 2017

My oldest son, wrestling with a 4-year-old’s happy struggles, is trying to clarify how many people can be his best friend. “My best friends are you and Mama and my brother and …” But even a child’s joy is not immune to this ominous political period. This summer’s images of violence in Charlottesville, Va., prompted an array of questions. “Some people hate others because they are different,” I offer, lamely. A childish but distinct panic enters his voice. “But I’m not different.”

It is impossible to convey the mixture of heartbreak and fear I feel for him. Donald Trump’s election has made it clear that I will teach my boys the lesson generations old, one that I for the most part nearly escaped. I will teach them to be cautious, I will teach them suspicion, and I will teach them distrust. Much sooner than I thought I would, I will have to discuss with my boys whether they can truly be friends with white people.

Meaningful friendship is not just a feeling. It is not simply being able to share a beer. Real friendship is impossible without the ability to trust others, without knowing that your well-being is important to them. The desire to create, maintain or wield power over others destroys the possibility of friendship. The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s famous dream of black and white children holding hands was a dream precisely because he realized that in Alabama, conditions of dominance made real friendship between white and black people impossible.

History has provided little reason for people of color to trust white people in this way, and these recent months have put in the starkest relief the contempt with which the country measures the value of racial minorities. America is transfixed on the opioid epidemic among white Americans (who often get hooked after being overprescribed painkillers — while studies show that doctors underprescribe pain medication for African-Americans). But when black lives were struck by addiction, we cordoned off minority communities with the police and threw away an entire generation of black and Hispanic men.

Likewise, despite centuries of exclusion and robust evidence of continuing racism, minority underemployment is often couched in the language of bad choices and personal responsibility. When systemic joblessness strikes swaths of white America, we get an entire presidential campaign centered on globalization’s impact on the white working class. Even the nerve of some rich or visible African-Americans to protest that America, in its laws and in its police, has rarely been just to all has been met with the howls of a president who cannot tolerate that the lucky and the uppity do not stay in their place.

As against our gauzy national hopes, I will teach my boys to have profound doubts that friendship with white people is possible. When they ask, I will teach my sons that their beautiful hue is a fault line. Spare me platitudes of how we are all the same on the inside. I first have to keep my boys safe, and so I will teach them before the world shows them this particular brand of rending, violent, often fatal betrayal.

Let me assure you that my heartbreak dwarfs my anger. I grew up in a classic Midwestern college town. With all its American faults, it was a diverse and happy-childhood kind of place, slightly dull in the way that parents wish for their children. If race showed in class lines, school cliques and being pulled over more often, our little Americana lacked the deep racial tension and mistrust that seem so hard to escape now.

What’s surprising is that I am heartbroken at all. It is only for African-Americans who grew up in such a place that watching Mr. Trump is so disorienting. For many weary minorities, the ridiculous thing was thinking friendship was possible in the first place. It hurts only if you believed friendship could bridge the racial gorge.

Of course, the rise of this president has broken bonds on all sides. But for people of color the stakes are different. Imagining we can now be friends across this political line is asking us to ignore our safety and that of our children, to abandon personal regard and self-worth. Only white people can cordon off Mr. Trump’s political meaning, ignore the “unpleasantness” from a position of safety. His election and the year that has followed have fixed the awful thought in my mind too familiar to black Americans: “You can’t trust these people.”

It is not Mr. Trump himself who has done this. Were it not for our reverence for money, Mr. Trump would be easily recognized as the simple-minded, vulgar, bigoted blowhard he is. It is certainly not the neo-Nazis marching on Charlottesville; we have seen their type before. Rather, what has truly broken my heart are the ranks of Mr. Trump’s many allies and apologists.

Mr. Trump’s supporters are practiced at purposeful blindness. That his political life started with denying, without evidence, that Barack Obama is American — that this black man could truly be the legitimate president — is simply ignored. So, too, is his history of housing discrimination, his casual conflation of Muslims with terrorists, his reducing Mexican-Americans to murderers and rapists. All along, his allies have watched racial pornography, describing black America as pathological. Yet they deny that there is any malice whatsoever in his words and actions. And they dismiss any attempt to recognize the danger of his wide-ranging animus as political correctness.

But the deepest rift is with the apologists, the “good” Trump voters, the white people who understand that Mr. Trump says “unfortunate” things but support him because they like what he says on jobs and taxes. They bristle at the accusation that they supported racism, insisting they had to ignore Mr. Trump’s ugliness. Relying on everyday decency as a shield, they are befuddled at the chill that now separates them from black people in their offices and social circles. They protest: Have they ever said anything racist? Don’t they shovel the sidewalk of the new black neighbors? Surely, they say, politics — a single vote — does not mean we can’t be friends.

I do not write this with liberal condescension or glee. My heart is unbearably heavy when I assure you we cannot be friends.

The same is true, unfortunately, of those who hold no quarter for Mr. Trump but insist that black people need to do the reaching out, the moderating, the accommodating. Imagine the white friend during the civil rights era who disliked blacks’ being beaten to death but wished the whole thing would just settle down. However likable, you could not properly describe her as a friend. Sometimes politics makes demands on the soul.

Don’t misunderstand: White Trump supporters and people of color can like one another. But real friendship? Mr. Trump’s bruised ego invents outrageous claims of voter fraud, not caring that this rhetoric was built upon dogs and water hoses set on black children and even today the relentless effort to silence black voices. His macho talk about “law and order” does not keep communities safe and threatens the very bodies of the little boys I love. No amount of shoveled snow makes it all right, and too many imagine they can have it both ways. It is this desperation to reap the rewards of white power without being so much as indicted that James Baldwin recognized as America’s criminal innocence.

For African-Americans, race has become a proxy not just for politics but also for decency. White faces are swept together, ominous anxiety behind every chance encounter at the airport or smiling white cashier. If they are not clearly allies, they will seem unsafe to me.

Barack Obama’s farewell address encouraged us to reach across partisan lines. But there is a difference between disagreeing over taxes and negotiating one’s place in America, the bodies of your children, your humanity. Our racial wound has undone love and families, and ignoring the depths of the gash will not cause it to heal.

We can still all pretend we are friends. If meaningful civic friendship is impossible, we can make do with mere civility — sharing drinks and watching the game. Indeed, even in Donald Trump’s America, I have not given up on being friends with all white people. My bi-ethnic wife, my most trusted friend, understands she is seen as a white woman, even though her brother and father are not. Among my dearest friends, the wedding party and children’s godparents variety, many are white. But these are the friends who have marched in protest, rushed to airports to protest the president’s travel ban, people who have shared the risks required by strength and decency.

There is hope, though. Implicitly, without meaning to, Mr. Trump asks us if this is the best we can do. It falls to us to do better. We cannot agree on our politics, but we can declare that we stand beside one another against cheap attack and devaluation; that we live together and not simply beside one another. In the coming years, when my boys ask again their questions about who can be their best friend, I pray for a more hopeful answer.


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/...mp.html?referer=https://t.co/3w1en0a3ei?amp=1

Disgusting race hustling propaganda.
 
I was having a lunch counter a while back here in Prairieville and the black woman was sitting next to me she told me that her parents always taught her to be most wary of the old white guys. What the professor is saying is similar to what I've heard before and what blacks have said before many blacks.
 

Very, very sad. I can't say that I blame him; I wish things were not this way. I view otherwise-"nice" Trump supporters the same way. If you can vote for the piggish misogynist and excuse his treatment of and words regarding women, because "jobs" or "economy," then I really don't want to be around you nor would I want my daughters around you. The racism and misogyny of Trump are innate to his being; if you support him, then in my mind you support racism and misogyny.
 
Very, very sad. I can't say that I blame him; I wish things were not this way. I view otherwise-"nice" Trump supporters the same way. If you can vote for the piggish misogynist and excuse his treatment of and words regarding women, because "jobs" or "economy," then I really don't want to be around you nor would I want my daughters around you. The racism and misogyny of Trump are innate to his being; if you support him, then in my mind you support racism and misogyny.

Not all white people voted for Trump. So you would be ok with him saying his kids couldn't be friends with your kids because other people voted for Trump?
 
Not all white people voted for Trump. So you would be ok with him saying his kids couldn't be friends with your kids because other people voted for Trump?

That doesn't make any sense. And that's not what the author was saying anyways. It sounded to me more like he was going to caution them on such friendships, because their parents might be Trump voters and thus possibly racist. I didn't get that they were never to associate with *any* white kids. Was that your take?

Parents are always doing stupid stuff like that with their kids. When mine were young they went to PSR every week. The oldest one also played soccer on the parish kids' team. There were a couple of parents there who told their kids they couldn't be her friend because she was a PSR/public school kid and didn't attend the parish elementary school. Stupid and petty? You betcha.
 
That doesn't make any sense. And that's not what the author was saying anyways. It sounded to me more like he was going to caution them on such friendships, because their parents might be Trump voters and thus possibly racist. I didn't get that they were never to associate with *any* white kids. Was that your take?

Parents are always doing stupid stuff like that with their kids. When mine were young they went to PSR every week. The oldest one also played soccer on the parish kids' team. There were a couple of parents there who told their kids they couldn't be her friend because she was a PSR/public school kid and didn't attend the parish elementary school. Stupid and petty? You betcha.

It's exactly what he was saying. Re-read it. He's saying he needs to teach his boys not to trust white people and ultimately not to be friends with them. He's not saying just white people who voted for Trump he's saying ALL white people.

At the end of the day people can be friends with whom ever they want. But if the goal is a more inclusive society this probably isn't the best way to go about it
 
Very, very sad. I can't say that I blame him; I wish things were not this way. I view otherwise-"nice" Trump supporters the same way. If you can vote for the piggish misogynist and excuse his treatment of and words regarding women, because "jobs" or "economy," then I really don't want to be around you nor would I want my daughters around you. The racism and misogyny of Trump are innate to his being; if you support him, then in my mind you support racism and misogyny.

so what you're saying is that you act out of ignorance and bigotry......
 
Very, very sad. I can't say that I blame him; I wish things were not this way. I view otherwise-"nice" Trump supporters the same way. If you can vote for the piggish misogynist and excuse his treatment of and words regarding women, because "jobs" or "economy," then I really don't want to be around you nor would I want my daughters around you. The racism and misogyny of Trump are innate to his being; if you support him, then in my mind you support racism and misogyny.
Yep. As to the OP...perhaps that father should hang out with Liberals. Then he won't have to worry about his kids' friends
 
It's exactly what he was saying. Re-read it. He's saying he needs to teach his boys not to trust white people and ultimately not to be friends with them. He's not saying just white people who voted for Trump he's saying ALL white people.

At the end of the day people can be friends with whom ever they want. But if the goal is a more inclusive society this probably isn't the best way to go about it
Given that kids tend to do exactly the opposite of what their parents want...that kid is lucky his father is a moron.
 
what do you think of what the professor wrote?

*EKOW*N.*YANKAH is a racist....its pretty obvious...

Would the professor give the same advice if the kid wanted to be friends with an Asian or an Indian or
some other race, or is it just whites she hates ?
 
any chance you want to make a civil post?

I think the professor is profoundly wrong. In other words, full of shit.

Teaching your kids to have profound doubts whether they can be friends with white people? Really? Does that deserve a civil response?
 
Very, very sad. I can't say that I blame him; I wish things were not this way. I view otherwise-"nice" Trump supporters the same way. If you can vote for the piggish misogynist and excuse his treatment of and words regarding women, because "jobs" or "economy," then I really don't want to be around you nor would I want my daughters around you. The racism and misogyny of Trump are innate to his being; if you support him, then in my mind you support racism and misogyny.

The feeling is mutual. I don’t want to be around liberals. They are as much an enemy as ISIS
 
I will never forget something some black football buddies I had in high school said to a couple of us white dudes. We hung out a lot, went to movies together, hung out with chicks together. But this just came out of the blue one day. They asked us if - when they weren't around us - if we used racist language, like the n-word. There was a palpable sense that they thought it was possible we were not completely on the up and up with them. That we may have acted like their white buddies, but when they were out of ear shot if we were behaving in a way that didn't comport with supposedly being their buddies.

Now, my mama trained me to never use the n-word. But you know what? Those black dudes had every right to wonder about the depth of our bonds, our friendship. Because, guess what? Yep, I did hear some of my white football buddies using racist language and being prejudiced. Obviously, my white buddies lied, and assured my black buddies that everything was on the up and up. I remember it to this day, because not only was it a lie, but it was a betrayal and a disrespect to our black buddies on the football team. I also felt disrespect for myself for not having the strength to shame my white buddies, or at least trying have an honest dialog about it.

And you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of all the rightwingers on jpp.com who, from the safety of an anonymous keyboard, find the courage to bellow racists crap....but undoubtedly around their co-workers and neighbors they keep the racists part of them under wraps, incognito.

Now, over the years I have dated a few black women, and really the friendship was exactly the same as with a white woman. So real and genuine friendship is easily within reach, as long as all human interactions are conducted with mutual respect, courtesy, and honesty. So, the article from the OP is a tad cynical for my taste. Just my two cents.
 
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