Big Government
- Thread starter cawacko
- Start date
SmarterthanYou
rebel
they both are into expansion, just their preferred parts of it. status quo for both parties.
Cancel 2020.1
Canceled
I consider myself a progressive in many ways (and I'm sure many on here consider me the same way) - but I have always contended that you can advance progressive ideals and still advocate for small government and lower taxes, and that these are not mutually exclusive concepts.
It bums me out to see progressives & liberals actually celebrate the idea of bigger government and higher taxes, but I think many on the left have become that way. Desh is the extreme example of that. Our government is incredibly bloated and inefficient. I was in my glory during the Clinton years when he publicly called for "smaller, smarter government," and Gore was overseeing an initiative called "reinventing government" which really looked at the bigger picture on the way programs and agencies are run. The latter was making real headway in eliminating waste & improving efficiencies, but was unfortunately abandoned.
And the GOP - my goodness. The one silver lining I always consider when they're in power is that MAYBE they'll curb spending intelligently - but do they ever love to spend.
It bums me out to see progressives & liberals actually celebrate the idea of bigger government and higher taxes, but I think many on the left have become that way. Desh is the extreme example of that. Our government is incredibly bloated and inefficient. I was in my glory during the Clinton years when he publicly called for "smaller, smarter government," and Gore was overseeing an initiative called "reinventing government" which really looked at the bigger picture on the way programs and agencies are run. The latter was making real headway in eliminating waste & improving efficiencies, but was unfortunately abandoned.
And the GOP - my goodness. The one silver lining I always consider when they're in power is that MAYBE they'll curb spending intelligently - but do they ever love to spend.
cawacko
Well-known member
The bigger the go'vt/the more power it has the more businesses work to get in bed with it. Look at Wall St and D.C. People who say we need big gov't to watch over businesses miss the point that it creates even more crony capitalism.
But on the whole American people like things from their gov't but don't want to pay for it. So politicians excel at doing just that and thus we end up with $20 trillion in debt.
But on the whole American people like things from their gov't but don't want to pay for it. So politicians excel at doing just that and thus we end up with $20 trillion in debt.
Not bad, but I take exception that the GOP merely "preserves" big government. The GOP expands big government, it's just that they like to spend taxpayer money on different shit than liberals - like the military-welfare state, trillion dollar wars on Iraq, and bloated, inefficient Defense budgets far beyond what is required to defend the United States from attack. The military welfare state probably props up the economies of quite a few southern states.
On another tangent: Let's face it, the buzzword "Big Government" is a relic of the era of Goldwater and Reagan. We really sound like old farts using it, and it really is just a political buzzword; a campaign slogan with no basis in reality. What the American people learned from the era of the Robber Barons, and the catastrophic economic depressions from 1890 to the 1930s which resulted from unrestrained capitalism, is that our society, our economy, our general welfare, our public commons, and our civil rights cannot be left to the vagaries of an unfettered capitalist system. That's what the slogan "big government" really translates to.
The campaign slogan "big government", as used by conservatives, is just a campaign buzzword that is a dog whistle to the segment of white society that feels - somehow, some way - there are brown people or are living a life of sloth and idleness on the government dole.
big UNPAID FOR government.
.we are $20T in the hole with an existing entitlement budget crunch coming up and we greatly expand Medicade?
Now it's another poverty program - able adults get on and we don't fund it's costs.
Of course we can pay insurance companies losses out of Obamacare/Trumpcare -but we can't do Single Pay???
how screwed up a design is all this?
.we are $20T in the hole with an existing entitlement budget crunch coming up and we greatly expand Medicade?
Now it's another poverty program - able adults get on and we don't fund it's costs.
Of course we can pay insurance companies losses out of Obamacare/Trumpcare -but we can't do Single Pay???
how screwed up a design is all this?
Anyone who wants big government and this debt/deficit has zero respect for future generations.
Getin the ring
Verified User
Single payer is risky, risky at its implementation when there is already an established for profit insurance industry, and in-place healthcare prices.
Something has to be done, and Obamacare has no chance of surviving as is. Our Governors almost to the man or woman have gone on record to attest this.
They are the local keepers of the till.
The simple solution in the near term IMO is to raise the bar on the subsidies qualification. There are millions of able bodied individuals receiving Medicaid subsidies simply because they "qualify" for it at the present bar.
You need to back it up to that fine line where people that truly need help bump into the ones that don't, draw that line and slowly inch it one way or the other as conditions dictate.
Why Obama thought another government controlled anything would work is beyond most economists. Look no further than the bang up job they have done with social security, welfare, the food stamp program, etc.
It is very hard to take something back from someone once you have given it to them in this country. Anyone that hasn't seen the abuse of our benefits programs at the grass roots level please seek someone out that has.
It will be eye opening.
I don't blame liberals for taking the humanitarian stance, I do however question their sincerity.
canceled.2021.3
Former Vice President
By some estimates when you factor in unfunded liabilities the debt approaches $60-100 trillion depending on what discount rate is being used
My guess is that it is such a staggering sum that most politicians have just given up on really addressing it.
Additionally when you start looking at individual programs voters aren't calling in to congress to say "stop spending on X program" because their contribution is probably pennies. However the takers of that program have every incentive to call and write to make sure the gravy train keeps coming.
There is no innocent party when it comes to gobblement waste.
That is why I say let the bitch crumble down
cawacko
Well-known member
Crony capitalism is a killer. No matter what people say very few who receive corporate largess from the gov't want to give it up. Existing businesses love licensing requirements and other regulations that make it more difficult for new people/firms to come into their fields.
Some push for these regulations then complain businesses are too powerful.
Some push for these regulations then complain businesses are too powerful.
DamnYankee
Loyal to the end
It's not that Desh is extreme. She's actually more representative of the average Dem than you are. They hate corporations, but advocate for the biggest corporation in the world- FedCo.
(oo)
The Superb Owl
Exactly. And "very few who receive corporate largess from the gov't want to give it up?" I can't think of a single instance when this happened, can you?