Armed Insurrections planned for 1/16-1/20

[Dutch Uncle]

It is hard to prove the riot would not have happened without the words spoken by someone who urged them on. During the Vietnam War protests there were many charges of inciting to riot and most of those convictions were overturned.

"A 1969 Supreme Court ruling that tossed the conviction of a Ku Klux Klan leader may also shield President Donald Trump from prosecution for inciting last week’s Capitol riot, leaving few alternatives to hold him accountable if impeachment efforts fail.

The case, in which the American Civil Liberties Union represented Brandenburg, set a high bar for criminal prosecutions of inflammatory speech. To make the case that Trump incited the riot, prosecutors would have to show that he intended to provoke violence, but his words are vague enough that it’s possible to argue that he was simply urging his supporters to peacefully protest outside the Capitol.

“Intention to incite is always difficult to show,” said Shirin Sinnar, a law professor at Stanford who studies the legal treatment of political violence. “A lot of the evidence here can be interpreted in different ways.”'

Also: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...5b7932-51ec-11eb-a1f5-fdaf28cfca90_story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/11/us/politics/donald-trump-crime.html

Agreed. Not a lawyer, but if you text and drive then hurt someone, you are held responsible for your negligence. Trump is the President of the United States of America. If he doesn't know what the fuck he is doing, then we have a major problem in the country and it isn't BLM or Antifa.

 

[LV426]

You always exaggerate reality and try to add drama.

Nothing more dramatic than a mob of racists and Nazis attacking the Capitol because they were whipped into a frenzy over lies about the election being stolen.

Some of those people probably did have the intent to riot, the other thousands of people who did not enter the Capitol may very well have intended to put pressure on Congress.

Put pressure on Congress, how? By violently attacking the Capitol after Trump told them to go there.

Why else did they go to DC in the first fucking place?

You claimed Drumpf would delay the election

Yeah, and he tried, and then did something even I didn't expect, which was launch an insurrection so he could stay in power based on a LIE. He tried, with the help of the GOP, to cancel the entire election! We saw him do it with our own two eyes, Flash.

That's the whole thing, Flash...the BIG LIE.

The BIG LIE is what fed and incited that crowd.

then you said cancel the election

Which he fucking tried to do, Flash! Jesus fucking Christ, do you not understand what the point of this whole "STOP THE STEAL" thing was?? It was to literally cancel the 2020 election so he could stay in power. And he came really fucking close, had those representatives not been taken to secure locations during the fucking riot his election lies caused!

then you said he would refuse to leave office.

QED, the insurrection, Flash!

None of those were true

Ah, but he tried ALL OF THEM.

You are playing deliberately obtuse because you just don't want to admit what he did and the role YOU PLAYED in it.

but they intended to create overly dramatic fear.

Well, let's see...

He lied about the election being stolen or fraudulent the day after the election....

He threatened the GA SoS to "find votes", then he threatened him again -ON THE SAME CALL 15 MINUTES LATER- to throw certain votes out (this is all on his call with Raffepserger, which I'm guessing you haven't heard)...

His enablers refused to certify the Electoral Vote from the states he lost...

He launched an insurrection so he could have the line of succession killed in order to stay in power...

He refuses to concede...

So...:shrugs: I'm not being dramatic...Trump literally tried all those things and THANKFULLY, the institutions kinda held. Though they certainly didn't hold on January 6th.

So "stop the steal" is a lie, based on a lie, that incited his people to riot at the Capitol.

Otherwise, why did they do it?

 

[Flash]

Do you ever wonder why?

Agreed most went there just for a regular political rally. It's been a week and the investigation is early but there are a lot of indications this rally and the attack were pre-planned. By whom remains a mystery. I'm sure our patriots in government will track down the terrorists.

Yes, the NY Times story said:

"The report mentioned people sharing a map of tunnels at the Capitol complex and possible meet-up points in Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and South Carolina before traveling to Washington, according to The Washington Post, which first reported on the F.B.I. document.

“Get violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally or a protest,” the document said, according to The Post. “Go there ready for war. We get our president or we die. NOTHING else will achieve this goal.”

Officials cautioned the information in the Norfolk report was uncorroborated and the portion that quoted “war” appeared to come from a single online thread."

If violence was planned beforehand that means the riot was not incited on the day of the attack; however, others may have been incited to follow the crowd when they saw them attacking.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

So that means you are a nutjob and an amateur, by your own definition. You have already made death threats here....

I've done no such thing.

Can you substantiate your claim, INT/IBDa/gfm?

 

[Damocles]

Legally charging him for incitement won’t happen, but he is morally responsible for promoting lies and his encouraging words.

Article 1 of the Articles of Impeachment is:

Incitement of Insurrection

 

[LV426]

Your headline said insurrections which is not what the story said. You have forgotten your original post which created a misleading impression.

So Flash has decided that rather than participate in a meaningful debate, he is going to instead parse the words I chose to use to describe the armed insurrections his "very fine people" are planning.

Flash does this to try and undermine my credibility because I've already undermined his, and he is seeking balance or retribution for it.

So OK, Flash, if you want to parse out the difference between an armed protest and an insurrection, feel free to make those pointless distinctions since the motivation and intention of both is to either kill and/or intimidate (AKA TERRORIZE).

 

[LV426]

Like this? https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/politics/capitol-riot-investigation/index.html

Evidence uncovered so far, including weapons and tactics seen on surveillance video, suggests a level of planning that has led investigators to believe the attack on the US Capitol was not just a protest that spiraled out of control, a federal law enforcement official says.

Among the evidence the FBI is examining are indications that some participants at the Trump rally at the Ellipse, outside the White House, left the event early, perhaps to retrieve items to be used in the assault on the Capitol.

A team of investigators and prosecutors are also focused on the command and control aspect of the attack, looking at travel and communications records to determine if they can build a case that is similar to a counterterrorism investigation, the official said.

It was a total Inside Job.

 

[Into the Night]

It did.




On January 6, 2021, pursuant to the 12th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the Vice President of the United States, the House of Representatives, and the Senate met at the United States Capitol for a Joint Session of Congress to count the votes of the Electoral College. In the months preceding the Joint Session, President Trump repeatedly issued false statements asserting that the Presidential election results were the product of widespread fraud and should not be accepted by the American people or certified by State or Federal officials. Shortly before the Joint Session commenced, President Trump, addressed a crowd at the Ellipse in Washington, D.C. There, he reiterated false claims that "we won this election, and we won it by a landslide." He also willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged — and foreseeably resulted in — lawless action at the Capitol, such as: "if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore." Thus incited by President Trump, members of the crowd he had addressed, in an attempt to, among other objectives, interfere with the Joint Session's solemn constitutional duty to certify the results of the 2020 Presidential election, unlawfully breached and vandalized the Capitol, injured and killed law enforcement personnel, menaced Members of Congress, the Vice President, and Congressional personnel, and engaged in other violent, deadly, destructive and seditious acts.

https://www.npr.org/sections/trump-...ement-of-capitol-insurrection?t=1610660589815

The usual lies from the Democrats.

Trump did not incite violence. Democrats are suppressing his videos because they show this.
Trump specifically condemns violence and specifically condemned the violence in Washington DC. Democrats are suppressing his videos because they show this.
The election did occur. Congress voted to sustain election fraud.

The Democrats have engaged in violent, deadly, destructive, and seditious acts all 2020. They still do.

Trump does not command Antifa or BLM. They were the ones killing cops and breaking windows and doors. They were the ones that were LET INTO the Capitol building by Democrats.

Biden will be installed as Prime Minister of the SOA on Jan 20th, surrounded by military and little else. So much for 'the guy that won an election' and his 'popularity'. After that, it will be like the Game of Thrones, complete with sex scenes. The infighting has already started.
Who will take power from Biden? Pelosi? Harris? Hillary arranging one of her 'accidents'?

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Yes, the NY Times story said:

"The report mentioned people sharing a map of tunnels at the Capitol complex and possible meet-up points in Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and South Carolina before traveling to Washington, according to The Washington Post, which first reported on the F.B.I. document.

“Get violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally or a protest,” the document said, according to The Post. “Go there ready for war. We get our president or we die. NOTHING else will achieve this goal.”

Officials cautioned the information in the Norfolk report was uncorroborated and the portion that quoted “war” appeared to come from a single online thread."

If violence was planned beforehand that means the riot was not incited on the day of the attack; however, others may have been incited to follow the crowd when they saw them attacking.

They'll start rounding up assholes over the next several weeks but it will probably be 6-12 months for the full investigation. Maybe longer. The NTSB Kobe Bryant crash report is going to take over a year and that's pretty clearly inadvertent IMC, impact with rising terrain and all deaths resulting from impact injuries. In short the pilot flew it into the ground. Trump's riot is certain to take longer.

 

[LV426]

Agreed most went there just for a regular political rally

No, this wasn't a "political rally" and no one there thought it was...that's why they launched the attack on the Capitol.

That's why they erected gallows before anyone marched to the Capitol.

"Stop the Steal" was what the rally was literally called.

So, "Stop the steal", how? Gallows.

Nevermind the 600lb Gorilla in the room that the election wasn't fucking stolen.

So this insurrection was based on The Big Lie, the people who went there to insurrect went there because of The Big Lie.

So The Big Lie incited them to violence.

And who told The Big Lie? You know the answer.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It was a total Inside Job.

...by Hillary R. Clinton in her evil bid to retake Washington DC

 

[Legion]

They'll start rounding up assholes over the next several weeks but it will probably be 6-12 months for the full investigation. Maybe longer.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

No, this wasn't a "political rally" and no one there thought it was...that's why they launched the attack on the Capitol.

That's why they erected gallows before anyone marched to the Capitol.

"Stop the Steal" was what the rally was literally called.

So, "Stop the steal", how? Gallows.

Nevermind the 600lb Gorilla in the room that the election wasn't fucking stolen.

So this insurrection was based on The Big Lie, the people who went there to insurrect went there because of The Big Lie.

So The Big Lie incited them to violence.

Disagreed, but I'm still waiting to see numbers of how many people were at Trump's speech and then how many broke into the Capitol.

Yes, I'm aware of all the political bullshit words tossed back and forth. The election was fair and secure.

 

[BartenderElite]

A President's words are important. They have an impact.

It's why every Presidential election loser has conceded graciously, and called for their supporters to unite behind the winner. That is a TOUGH thing to do in most elections. Most are incredibly hard fought, and losing is a very emotional, painful thing. But they do it, because they put country first.

Not only did Trump NOT do that - he took it much further. He said it was rigged, and stolen. This is the equivalent of pouring gasoline on a fire.

 

[Legion]

Yes, the NY Times story said: according to The Washington Post

 

[Dutch Uncle]

A President's words are important. They have an impact.

It's why every Presidential election loser has conceded graciously, and called for their supporters to unite behind the winner. That is a TOUGH thing to do in most elections. Most are incredibly hard fought, and losing is a very emotional, painful thing. But they do it, because they put country first.

Not only did Trump NOT do that - he took it much further. He said it was rigged, and stolen. This is the equivalent of pouring gasoline on a fire.

Agreed words are important, especially the President's words. All Trump has done is waterdown the Office of the Presidency and make me wonder, "Why the fuck do we even need a President if they never take responsibility?"

Consider how many of the useful idiots are pleading in court "Bu..bu...but the President told me! WAAAAAAH!"

 

[Legion]

He said it was rigged, and stolen. This is the equivalent of pouring gasoline on a fire.

Like these comments?

“There was a widespread understanding that this election was not on the level. We still don’t know what really happened. No, it doesn’t kill me because he knows he’s an illegitimate president. I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did. You can run the best campaign, you can even become the nominee, and you can have the election stolen from you."

Like that?

 

[BartenderElite]

Agreed words are important, especially the President's words. All Trump has done is waterdown the Office of the Presidency and make me wonder, "Why the fuck do we even need a President if they never take responsibility?"

Consider how many of the useful idiots are pleading in court "Bu..bu...but the President told me! WAAAAAAH!"

It's definitely pretty obvious w/ Trump. Even more w/ him, because there is a large group that trusts him unconditionally, and without questioning.

 

[LV426]

“Get violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally or a protest,”

So this kinda runs in direct contradiction to this, which you said one post before:

the other thousands of people who did not enter the Capitol may very well have intended to put pressure on Congress.

So you're quoting the NYT's where they actually talked to people and did the work, that they didn't think this was a rally or a protest.

But you said in a post right before it, that you make the assumption that they went there to "put pressure" on Congress...ostensibly by erecting gallows and bringing weapons, zipcuffs, Nazi flags, and bulletproof vests because that's what they all brought.

So if you want to parse and pick apart my posts for accuracy, we shall do the same for you.

So what I don't understand is why you made the assumption here after reading and quoting the NYT article where they literally say not to think of this as a protest or riot".

So why are you making that assumption when your own sources confirm the motive and intent??

 

[Into the Night]

I wouldn't put it past a few lone nuts in the trump caucus to be professionals. All it takes is one Timothy McVeigh.

So you think McVeigh is a professional now????