Argument FOR Debt Ceiling Increase

D

Dixie - In Memoriam

New member
I can respect the TEA Party position in principle, of refusing to raise the debt ceiling. They are absolutely correct, raising the debt limit allows Congress to avoid making tough decisions on spending cuts, which is the real problem. I get it, I do... and liberals have such a weak argument, it seems like a no-brainer, we should refuse to raise the debt ceiling, and force the cuts to be made, to stave off default... right? Not quite.

Should Congress fail to raise the debt ceiling, the government runs out of money on August 2. However, the government has a constant flow of revenue coming in from taxes, so they will still be able to fund about 30%, but that leaves a huge 70% chunk that can't be paid for. Now, who gets to decide what gets paid and what doesn't get paid? You would think it might be Congress, but the President actually has Executive Authority to determine which federal employees are 'essential' and 'non-essential' and through that, can effectively control what parts of government shut down, and what parts remain open.

Now... Do you suppose the President will cut funding to ACORN or the EPA, or will he send home the government workers who mail out the SSI checks? If he holds true to his ideological leanings, he will cut funding to anything that will hurt the right and leave funding for anything that will help the left. What is best for the country, simply doesn't matter to this man, or the Democrats. It's about ideology.. fundamentally transforming America.

This is why it's not a good idea for the right to refuse increasing the debt ceiling. As much as principle says you shouldn't, pragmatism says you have to. If it fails to be raised, the country will not go into default, but everything that will be halted, will be emotive heart-felt things that will play unfavorably toward Republicans, from now until Nov 2012. Day after day, week after week, we'll get to see the MSM roll out another tear-jerking story of some schmuck who's family is starving/homeless because of Republicans.

The left will continue to lie and distort as always, and these daily sob stories would be accompanied by a healthy dose of... all because Republicans wanted tax cuts for the rich! And how does that play for the 49% of our country who pay NO TAX? They don't care how much taxes are raised, they don't pay taxes. It's not a good political position for Republicans to put themselves in, and Obama/Dems know it.
 
Dixie said:
I can respect the TEA Party position in principle, of refusing to raise the debt ceiling. They are absolutely correct, raising the debt limit allows Congress to avoid making tough decisions on spending cuts, which is the real problem. I get it, I do... and liberals have such a weak argument, it seems like a no-brainer, we should refuse to raise the debt ceiling, and force the cuts to be made, to stave off default... right? Not quite.

Should Congress fail to raise the debt ceiling, the government runs out of money on August 2. However, the government has a constant flow of revenue coming in from taxes, so they will still be able to fund about 30%, but that leaves a huge 70% chunk that can't be paid for. Now, who gets to decide what gets paid and what doesn't get paid? You would think it might be Congress, but the President actually has Executive Authority to determine which federal employees are 'essential' and 'non-essential' and through that, can effectively control what parts of government shut down, and what parts remain open.

Now... Do you suppose the President will cut funding to ACORN or the EPA, or will he send home the government workers who mail out the SSI checks? If he holds true to his ideological leanings, he will cut funding to anything that will hurt the right and leave funding for anything that will help the left. What is best for the country, simply doesn't matter to this man, or the Democrats. It's about ideology.. fundamentally transforming America.

This is why it's not a good idea for the right to refuse increasing the debt ceiling. As much as principle says you shouldn't, pragmatism says you have to. If it fails to be raised, the country will not go into default, but everything that will be halted, will be emotive heart-felt things that will play unfavorably toward Republicans, from now until Nov 2012. Day after day, week after week, we'll get to see the MSM roll out another tear-jerking story of some schmuck who's family is starving/homeless because of Republicans.

The left will continue to lie and distort as always, and these daily sob stories would be accompanied by a healthy dose of... all because Republicans wanted tax cuts for the rich! And how does that play for the 49% of our country who pay NO TAX? They don't care how much taxes are raised, they don't pay taxes. It's not a good political position for Republicans to put themselves in, and Obama/Dems know it.
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"What is best for the country, simply doesn't matter to this man, or the Democrats. It's about ideology.. fundamentally transforming America."

The point is change is what's best for America.

The world has changed and winners change, as well. It's called adapting to a new reality. For example, pensions. There was a time when families stayed in the same area. People were born, lived out their lives and died, all in the same town. The elderly had their families close by.

Take medical care. What form of medical care was available in 1776? Anybody with a hack saw or meat saw could perform amputations and that's exactly what happened, sometimes without anesthetic (chloroform). Do you think the Founding Fathers considered a drug prescription plan?

Yes, Dixie. It is about ideology, "a body of ideas that reflects the beliefs and interests of a nation, political system, etc and underlies political action." The idea that if society has the means to prevent death by offering medical care and medications to those who can not afford it, it is beneficial to society. Ensuring the elderly do not starve to death or live in a rat hole is beneficial to society. To ensure children are not suffering from hunger when in school distracting them from learning. Those are some of the ideas, the ideology, of the Democratic party. Those are the ideas, the ideology, that you oppose. Those are the ideas, the ideology, you claim will destroy the country.

Please, tell us how. How will denying help resulting in suffering and death benefit the country?
 
Dixie said:
Now... Do you suppose the President will cut funding to ACORN or the EPA, or will he send home the government workers who mail out the SSI checks?
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ACORN doesn't really exist anymore. And the SSI administration costs several orders of magnitude more than the EPA. You're not even trying to make an equal comparison. Killing the EPA isn't going to save the SSI and keeping it alive isn't going to kill it.
 
Dixie said:
This is why it's not a good idea for the right to refuse increasing the debt ceiling.
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This is why? Because it would be bad for the football team you cheer for in the game of politics? Not because it would mean hundreds of billions dollars more in interest payments in the future? Not because it would shake the foundation of confidence in our currency, permanently weakening the American position in the global economy? Because you predict it would be bad for the Republicans? Jesus Christ...
 
apple0154 said:
"What is best for the country, simply doesn't matter to this man, or the Democrats. It's about ideology.. fundamentally transforming America."

The point is change is what's best for America.

The world has changed and winners change, as well. It's called adapting to a new reality. For example, pensions. There was a time when families stayed in the same area. People were born, lived out their lives and died, all in the same town. The elderly had their families close by.

Take medical care. What form of medical care was available in 1776? Anybody with a hack saw or meat saw could perform amputations and that's exactly what happened, sometimes without anesthetic (chloroform). Do you think the Founding Fathers considered a drug prescription plan?

Yes, Dixie. It is about ideology, "a body of ideas that reflects the beliefs and interests of a nation, political system, etc and underlies political action." The idea that if society has the means to prevent death by offering medical care and medications to those who can not afford it, it is beneficial to society. Ensuring the elderly do not starve to death or live in a rat hole is beneficial to society. To ensure children are not suffering from hunger when in school distracting them from learning. Those are some of the ideas, the ideology, of the Democratic party. Those are the ideas, the ideology, that you oppose. Those are the ideas, the ideology, you claim will destroy the country.

Please, tell us how. How will denying help resulting in suffering and death benefit the country?
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If government is right in protecting its citizens from the malice of man in the form of a police force, why isn't it right in protecting its citizens from the malice of nature in the form of universal healthcare now that society is strong enough to provide such a protection?
 
Don't raise it, let The Obama toss old folks in the street why he still gets his full salary and Michelle stops traffic to shop for arugula. Read up on French history to see what happens next. :)
 
Damn Yankee said:
Don't raise it, let The Obama toss old folks in the street why he still gets his full salary and Michelle stops traffic to shop for arugula. Read up on French history to see what happens next. :)
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So here's the two opinions from the right:

"Do not destroy the American economy because I imagine that it would be politically bad for the Republicans."
"Destroy the American economy because of the pleasure I'd receive in seeing Obama and his wife, perhaps their children as well, executed, as I imagine the Republicans would be able to do if we destroyed the American economy."

Why don't you guys just go ahead and declare your nationality "Republican" instead of "American"?
 
Watermark said:
If government is right in protecting its citizens from the malice of man in the form of a police force, why isn't it right in protecting its citizens from the malice of nature in the form of universal healthcare now that society is strong enough to provide such a protection?
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Because it's been established that police have no standing obligation to prevent malice in any form.
 
Watermark said:
So here's the two opinions from the right:

"Do not destroy the American economy because I imagine that it would be politically bad for the Republicans."
"Destroy the American economy because of the pleasure I'd receive in seeing Obama and his wife, perhaps their children as well, executed, as I imagine the Republicans would be able to do if we destroyed the American economy."

Why don't you guys just go ahead and declare your nationality "Republican" instead of "American"?
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Why do pinheads like you have such short and selective memories....its quite fascinating...

We would not be in any cirsis today if Republicans had their way 20 years ago........

I know you don't have a freakin clue what I'm talking about....
 
bravo said:
Why do pinheads like you have such short and selective memories....its quite fascinating...

We would not be in any cirsis today if Republicans had their way 20 years ago........

I know you don't have a freakin clue what I'm talking about....
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If it comes to you, write it down, and tell us later.
 
Mr. T said:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/25/similar-groups-acorns-place-republicans-foul/
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ACORN are national heroes, Republicans just don't like them because they got lots of brown people to the polls in 2008. Brown people are bad people.

Conservatives are the ultimate traitors. They are Republicans first, corporations second, Americans third, and humans last. Humanity and America should treat Republicans and corporations like Republicans and corporations treat Humanity and America.
 
Return of Dune said:
Really, a Fox news link?

In general (just so you know) Fox is not considered a reliable source.

As an example, while it is true that the folks who once worked for Acorn still have lives and jobs, government funding for Acorn has been canceled.
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Fox not reliable?? What on earth are you talking about? Fox is a 100% reliable right wing, Murdoch owned, lying propaganda station.
We knew little about it until the dirty digger was hauled wriggling and lying before the commons committee. 'This is the most humble day of my life', he said. Well its come 60 years too late, Rupe. Now F*** off.
 
Watermark said:
So here's the two opinions from the right:

"Do not destroy the American economy because I imagine that it would be politically bad for the Republicans."
"Destroy the American economy because of the pleasure I'd receive in seeing Obama and his wife, perhaps their children as well, executed, as I imagine the Republicans would be able to do if we destroyed the American economy."

Why don't you guys just go ahead and declare your nationality "Republican" instead of "American"?
Click to expand...

Here's a third option: Force the federal government to spend only what it takes in, thus restoring confidence of its creditors and the people, strengthening the economy.
 
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