anti-Russian hysteria on the rise

[anatta]

few thoughts.
The Sessions adventure is stirring up the hysterics- I've heard such silliness as "Trump should make a statement denouncing Putin"
Of course all the "national security expert"talking heads are on TV telling us the Russian are mortal enemies
and dealing with them MUST entail a zero sum game.

Then they show video of Russian fly-bys on our ships in the Black Sea.
Or they talk ominously of Spy Ships off the Atlantic coast.

I happened to see a piece this morning where reporter was interviewing Iraqi PM Abadi.
The thrust of it was he was going to work more with the Russians if the US was not reliable
after ISIS is finally routed.

Beware of the HAWKS who constantly refer to Putin as a "murderous KGB thug"
Beware of partisans who claim Trump is a handmaiden of Putin.
Beware of anyone who wants more money and manpower funneled into confrontation in Europe.

We've been doing this, and we are not more secure,we are just more confrontational.
Putin has been acting as a world power,and making many inroads into middle east
security arrangements/weapon sales and economic partnerships.

The shrill anti-Russian hawks/partisans are locking into endless confrontation,and a hostility
of purpose in the middle east.
It's time to think about some cooperation,some reduction of tensions,and some partnerships in at least parts of the middle east,now that Putin has contracts with many countries there.

And it's time to start talking to Russia -even low level talks -this situation benefits no one as it is

 

[Truth Detector]

The irony and hypocrisy for the lying leftist lunatics is that when Obama dealt with them, why that was okay.

This really is stupid....but I am glad that the trump election has exposed the lying liberal left and their FAKE media for what they are....a bunch of petty small minded morons.

Obama tells Russian PM "After Election I Have More Flexibilty" 3/26/2012

 

[anatta]

^ Obama got us much of the way to where we are now- true. It's bigger then that though

The Russia-phobes are entrenched in the IC, and see any rapprochement as bad.

Which begs the question,,,"how do you like things the way they are?"

 

[sear]

"Obama got us much of the way to where we are now- true." #3

BUT !!

For Obama to have been the CAUSE of this alleged "hysteria", it would have existed during the Obama administration.

Instead this alleged "hysteria" has been manifest since Trump began speaking favorably of Putin, suggesting the gratuitous lifting of sanctions against Russia, etc.

Russia reportedly has the military capacity to obliterate the U.S. at will.

It is therefore not imprudent to maintain vigil over Putin's multiple military excesses, past, present, and future.

Keep your friends close, your enemies even closer. - unknown

Obama obviously kept a wary eye on Putin. Trump's rhetoric toward Putin has alarmed Democrats, Republicans, and U.S. military commanders alike.

hysteria (hî-stèr´ê-e, -stîr´-) noun
1. A neurosis characterized by the presentation of a physical ailment without an organic cause, sleepwalking, amnesia, episodes of hallucinations, and other mental and behavioral aberrations.
2. Excessive or uncontrollable emotion, such as fear or panic.

Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

Thus please note.
Not all significant reactions are "hysteria". And the deliberate mislabeling of it in this topic title betrays a bogus premise.

Putin is a dangerous man.
We know that for a fact.
And recent reports indicate, not only has Putin faddiddled with the DNC's computer/s.
It seems Russia is up to similar shenanigans in Western Europe, in France for example.

 

[anatta]

you need to be thread banned if all you can do is spam the same old crap.

suggesting the gratuitous lifting of sanctions against Russia, etc.

^no. that's never been said by anybody - not without some dealing first
++

Obama did jack shit regarding Russia.
He wouldn't confront Putin,and he wouldn't offer any cooperation with Putin.
about all he did was BLAME Putin ( like you are now) without any attempts to even TALK to Putin
He dismissed Putin as "bad boy slouching" and was outplayed worldwide by Putin .

and the cause of the hysteria is not Obama -it's BAKED IN to the IC.

Obama did leave a lot of time bombs ( low level info spread wide designed to generate reports)
and they will no doubt be pondered over by the Intelligence communities - and be use to
further the Russian hysterics.

Which brings us back to we are now. nowhere. status quo "European Reassurance Initiative" Cold War

 

[Truth Detector]

For Obama to have been the CAUSE of this alleged "hysteria", it would have existed during the Obama administration.

Instead this alleged "hysteria" has been manifest since Trump began speaking favorably of Putin, suggesting the gratuitous lifting of sanctions against Russia, etc.

Dear dunce; the hysteria is coming from the left who didn't seem to care about Obama leaning across the table to tell Medvedev he would have MORE FLEXIBILITY after he was re-elected, or cared when Russia invaded Crimea, UNDER OBAMA's watch, or cared when Russia shot down a Malaysian Airliner, UNDER OBAMA's watch, or as they attempted to intervene in Ukrainian politics and invade that nation, UNDER OBAMA's watch.

But the REAL stupidity coming from the lying liberal left and their FAKE media is this notion that suddenly, it is illegal and cause for impeachment for a new administration to be talking to the Russians, or the equally specious dumb and FALSE notion that the Russians had anything to do with our elections and the failure of Hillary to garner sufficient electoral votes to win.

Russia reportedly has the military capacity to obliterate the U.S. at will.

....as we do to them. Dunce. All the more reason to TALK to them and keep our relations courteous and not declare Putin a murderer without proof or facts to back it up.

It is therefore not imprudent to maintain vigil over Putin's multiple military excesses, past, present, and future.

Keep your friends close, your enemies even closer. - unknown

This debate isn't about maintaining a vigil; it is about the moronic and FALSE narrative being promoted by emotionally disturbed lying leftists and the DNC that Trump and some in his administration worked with the Russians to steal an election.

Dunce.

Obama obviously kept a wary eye on Putin.

Was that when he leaned over to Medvedev thinking his mike was off and saying "wait until after my re-election and I will have more flexibility?" And what flexibility could Obama have been speaking about??? Bending over and taking it in the rear from the Russians?

Dunce.

Trump's rhetoric toward Putin has alarmed Democrats, Republicans, and U.S. military commanders alike.

This is nothing more than a massive pile of unadulterated bullshit. The ONLY thing the Democrats are alarmed about is a successful Trump Presidency you bloviating idiot.

hysteria (hî-stèr´ê-e, -stîr´-) noun
1. A Democrat with a serious case of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

I fixed the definition for you. Dunce.

Putin is a dangerous man.
We know that for a fact.

Democrats are much more of a danger to this nation. They represent a loser ideology that places America last, ignores Americans looking for work, diminishes our electoral process, diminishes the Presidency and buries the American taxpayers in a massive pile of debt while promoting lies and false narratives.

And recent reports indicate, not only has Putin faddiddled with the DNC's computer/s.

This is not only false and stupid, but makes ZERO sense as do most of your posts. Dunce.

It seems Russia is up to similar shenanigans in Western Europe, in France for example.

I am amused by the idiots on the left who think that America has not engaged in activist efforts in other nations elections and affairs.

But then, if you were informed, had intelligence and brain larger than a gnats, you wouldn't be a lying Liberal leftist supporting the lies of the DNC and party of the jackasses.

 

[Bill]

IN DEFENSE OF pO' putin-Oye fuckin VAY!!!!

I don't see or hear any hysteria??

Does anyone else?? There isn't even a link in the OP to support it.......

I see/read lots of anger & lack of trust as more & more comes out about the so called precedents "team" being involved w/ THE RUSSIANS..

Pls, don't try to make American's anger & mistrust of this so called precedent/administration be about putin or the RUSSIANS, it about the choices they made, bad bad choices.....

 

[Truth Detector]

IN DEFENSE OF pO' putin-Oye fuckin VAY!!!!

I don't see or hear any hysteria??

Does anyone else?? There isn't even a link in the OP to support it.......

I see/read lots of anger & lack of trust as more & more comes out about the so called precedents "team" being involved w/ THE RUSSIANS..

Pls, don't try to make American's anger & mistrust of this so called precedent/administration be about anyone BUT putin or the RUSSIANS, it about the choices they made, bad bad choices.....

You really are too stupid for words; the only hysteria we are seeing is the desperation from the lying left, the FAKE media and the party of the jackass.

It was the party of the jackass and the FAKE media that demanded Trump accept the results of the election when they moronically believed Hiltlery was going to win. Funny now that the shoe is on the other foot, it is okay to demean the office, bloviate with repugnant and asinine false claims and attempt to diminish the office of the Presidency and our election processes.

You people are the most repugnant, dumb lying assholes on the entire planet; but alas, you're also too stupid to comprehend the OBVIOUS and believe that the American people are with you.

You morons still think you're relevant and are winning even after the massive losses in 2010, 2014 and 2016.

Dunce.

 

[Truth Detector]

you need to be thread banned if all you can do is spam the same old crap.

^no. that's never been said by anybody - not without some dealing first
++

Obama did jack shit regarding Russia.
He wouldn't confront Putin,and he wouldn't offer any cooperation with Putin.
about all he did was BLAME Putin ( like you are now) without any attempts to even TALK to Putin
He dismissed Putin as "bad boy slouching" and was outplayed worldwide by Putin .

and the cause of the hysteria is not Obama -it's BAKED IN to the IC.

Obama did leave a lot of time bombs ( low level info spread wide designed to generate reports)
and they will no doubt be pondered over by the Intelligence communities - and be use to
further the Russian hysterics.

Which brings us back to we are now. nowhere. status quo "European Reassurance Initiative" Cold War

^Spot on.

 

[Midas Whale67]

You really are too stupid for words; the only hysteria we are seeing is the desperation from the lying left, the FAKE media and the party of the jackass.

It was the party of the jackass and the FAKE media that demanded Trump accept the results of the election when they moronically believed Hiltlery was going to win. Funny now that the shoe is on the other foot, it is okay to demean the office, bloviate with repugnant and asinine false claims and attempt to diminish the office of the Presidency and our election processes.

You people are the most repugnant, dumb lying assholes on the entire planet; but alas, you're also too stupid to comprehend the OBVIOUS and believe that the American people are with you.

You morons still think you're relevant and are winning even after the massive losses in 2010, 2014 and 2016.

Dunce.

Well that's what happens when they all meet at the Obama Nerve Center, down the road from Ivanka's. You put all that liberal wailing in one house, it'll be so fucking loud, California won't be able to pay attention!

 

[Bill Fishlore]

Reality, not rhetoric

There is a good case to be made in the OP that the rhetoric used by some of the folks alarmed at the evidence of sustained, successful subversion of Western democracies by Russia is "hysterical". There is real cause for alarm but over-heated language doesn't help the discussion.

There is a great turnaround going on among conservatives on the nature of Russia's foreign policies. For the better part of a century, Russia was synonymous with Communism and the right denounced Russian spies and saboteurs in our labor unions, State Department, news media etc. etc. Hysteria and paranoia were the modes of the right (Joe McCarthy, John Birch Society etc.) not the left.

The fall of the USSR was cited as proof of failure of the Communist system, but even then the right remained skeptical of Russian intentions, convinced that Yeltsin and then Putin were merely playing possum. Russian aid in Syria and open conquest in the Crimea and Ukraine were cited by Republicans as well as Democrats as proof that the Russian bear had not changed.

But then, rather suddenly, our political conversation began to shift and with it came a new perspective on our old Russian enemy. We entered an era when foreigners, especially immigrants became our preoccupation and new threat. Foreign trade alliances and military agreements started be denounced as ruining jobs and our standard of living. "America first!" became the cry, "NATO is obsolete!"

In the midst of this sudden change of course, Russia lost its sinister aspect. Cutting deals, even with the Kremlin, started to be offered as an alternative to the military alliance of NATO, which was denounced as a useless swindle of American taxpayers by greedy Europeans. The rise of the alt right in the US has been matched by similar ethnic nationalist parties in a dozen EU countries.

How did this happen? Such radical changes in American policy don't just fall out of the sky. Only now are we beginning to realize that we are in the midst of a new Cold War with Russia, a war whose objectives are economic and diplomatic rather than strictly military. Destruction of the NATO alliance that has kept the Russian bear in his cage, coupled with isolationism is creating a vacuum in the Western alliance that has guarded us for seventy years. Who is the big beneficiary of this bizarre shift?

Russia and Donald Trump, that's who. The Russians dreamed up this new Cold War strategy and invested the personnel and technology to make it happen. Mr. Trump came along, saw the confusion caused by the shift and seized his chance to ride the new world order to the White House. To what degree does he understand that while he was cleverly using the Russians to get elected, the Russians were even more cleverly using him and a number of other ethnic nationalists to undermine the walls of the Western Fortress? It may take a special prosecutor for us to find out.

 

[anatta]

IN DEFENSE OF pO' putin-Oye fuckin VAY!!!!

I don't see or hear any hysteria??

Does anyone else?? There isn't even a link in the OP to support it.......

I see/read lots of anger & lack of trust as more & more comes out about the so called precedents "team" being involved w/ THE RUSSIANS..

Pls, don't try to make American's anger & mistrust of this so called precedent/administration be about putin or the RUSSIANS, it about the choices they made, bad bad choices.....

it's my writings. I wrote it entirely.hence no link.
if you can't see the hysteria you are not paying attention.

Riddle me this:
If Putin and Trump had an introductory meeting -and recall one of Trumps maxim of the campaign was to improve US/Russian relations that are in the doldrum...what do you think the reaction would be??

I'll tell you. full blown hysteria that Trump and Putin are cooperating.And cooperation is BAD because the Russian are BAD..
I mean this would be the reaction to even a meeting!
++

The meetings between the Trump campaign and Russia were what exactly? were they collusion? ( no)
so why all the HYSTERIA??

 

[Bill]

it's my writings. I wrote it entirely.hence no link.
if you can't see the hysteria you are not paying attention.

Riddle me this:
If Putin and Trump had an introductory meeting -and recall one of Trumps maxim of the campaign was to improve US/Russian relations that are in the doldrum...what do you think the reaction would be??

I'll tell you. full blown hysteria that Trump and Putin are cooperating.And cooperation is BAD because the Russian are BAD..
I mean this would be the reaction to even a meeting!
++

The meetings between the Trump campaign and Russia were what exactly? were they collusion? ( no)
so why all the HYSTERIA??

Assuming you opinion is true, that would be because of the mistrust, not the cooperation~see the difference??

The Russians were involved in this election, the trumpf campaign had contact w/ the Russians, a blind man can see this here

 

[domer76]

few thoughts.
The Sessions adventure is stirring up the hysterics- I've heard such silliness as "Trump should make a statement denouncing Putin"
Of course all the "national security expert"talking heads are on TV telling us the Russian are mortal enemies
and dealing with them MUST entail a zero sum game.

Then they show video of Russian fly-bys on our ships in the Black Sea.
Or they talk ominously of Spy Ships off the Atlantic coast.

I happened to see a piece this morning where reporter was interviewing Iraqi PM Abadi.
The thrust of it was he was going to work more with the Russians if the US was not reliable
after ISIS is finally routed.

Beware of the HAWKS who constantly refer to Putin as a "murderous KGB thug"
Beware of partisans who claim Trump is a handmaiden of Putin.
Beware of anyone who wants more money and manpower funneled into confrontation in Europe.

We've been doing this, and we are not more secure,we are just more confrontational.
Putin has been acting as a world power,and making many inroads into middle east
security arrangements/weapon sales and economic partnerships.

The shrill anti-Russian hawks/partisans are locking into endless confrontation,and a hostility
of purpose in the middle east.
It's time to think about some cooperation,some reduction of tensions,and some partnerships in at least parts of the middle east,now that Putin has contracts with many countries there.

And it's time to start talking to Russia -even low level talks -this situation benefits no one as it is

1) They tried to fuck with our election
2) Trump has pissed off some of our best allies in Mexico and Australia. Made stupid comments about Sweden and is beginning to eff up on the China/Taiwan thing.

Yet, he still has yet to say anything, except compliments, about Putin and Russia. When confronted with the fact that Putin has opponents and journalists killed, Trump responds that we kill people, too.

"We kill people, too"? Are you fucking kidding me?

Something doesn't smell right in this whole situation. Multiple campaign people meeting with the Russian ambassador on multiple occasions, including his own son-in-law in Trump Tower and Orangetweet claims ignorance. I'm beginning to believe Trump's refusal to provide his tax return could also be connected to Russia.

 

[domer76]

Dear dunce; the hysteria is coming from the left who didn't seem to care about Obama leaning across the table to tell Medvedev he would have MORE FLEXIBILITY after he was re-elected, or cared when Russia invaded Crimea, UNDER OBAMA's watch, or cared when Russia shot down a Malaysian Airliner, UNDER OBAMA's watch, or as they attempted to intervene in Ukrainian politics and invade that nation, UNDER OBAMA's watch.

But the REAL stupidity coming from the lying liberal left and their FAKE media is this notion that suddenly, it is illegal and cause for impeachment for a new administration to be talking to the Russians, or the equally specious dumb and FALSE notion that the Russians had anything to do with our elections and the failure of Hillary to garner sufficient electoral votes to win.



....as we do to them. Dunce. All the more reason to TALK to them and keep our relations courteous and not declare Putin a murderer without proof or facts to back it up.



This debate isn't about maintaining a vigil; it is about the moronic and FALSE narrative being promoted by emotionally disturbed lying leftists and the DNC that Trump and some in his administration worked with the Russians to steal an election.

Dunce.



Was that when he leaned over to Medvedev thinking his mike was off and saying "wait until after my re-election and I will have more flexibility?" And what flexibility could Obama have been speaking about??? Bending over and taking it in the rear from the Russians?

Dunce.



This is nothing more than a massive pile of unadulterated bullshit. The ONLY thing the Democrats are alarmed about is a successful Trump Presidency you bloviating idiot.



I fixed the definition for you. Dunce.



Democrats are much more of a danger to this nation. They represent a loser ideology that places America last, ignores Americans looking for work, diminishes our electoral process, diminishes the Presidency and buries the American taxpayers in a massive pile of debt while promoting lies and false narratives.



This is not only false and stupid, but makes ZERO sense as do most of your posts. Dunce.



I am amused by the idiots on the left who think that America has not engaged in activist efforts in other nations elections and affairs.

But then, if you were informed, had intelligence and brain larger than a gnats, you wouldn't be a lying Liberal leftist supporting the lies of the DNC and party of the jackasses.

You stupid fuck. Obama was the sitting President when he spoke with Medvedev.

Fucking idiot.

 

[anatta]

There is a good case to be made in the OP that the rhetoric used by some of the folks alarmed at the evidence of sustained, successful subversion of Western democracies by Russia is "hysterical". There is real cause for alarm but over-heated language doesn't help the discussion.

There is a great turnaround going on among conservatives on the nature of Russia's foreign policies. For the better part of a century, Russia was synonymous with Communism and the right denounced Russian spies and saboteurs in our labor unions, State Department, news media etc. etc. Hysteria and paranoia were the modes of the right (Joe McCarthy, John Birch Society etc.) not the left.

The fall of the USSR was cited as proof of failure of the Communist system, but even then the right remained skeptical of Russian intentions, convinced that Yeltsin and then Putin were merely playing possum. Russian aid in Syria and open conquest in the Crimea and Ukraine were cited by Republicans as well as Democrats as proof that the Russian bear had not changed.

But then, rather suddenly, our political conversation began to shift and with it came a new perspective on our old Russian enemy. We entered an era when foreigners, especially immigrants became our preoccupation and new threat. Foreign trade alliances and military agreements started be denounced as ruining jobs and our standard of living. "America first!" became the cry, "NATO is obsolete!"

In the midst of this sudden change of course, Russia lost its sinister aspect. Cutting deals, even with the Kremlin, started to be offered as an alternative to the military alliance of NATO, which was denounced as a useless swindle of American taxpayers by greedy Europeans. The rise of the alt right in the US has been matched by similar ethnic nationalist parties in a dozen EU countries.

How did this happen? Such radical changes in American policy don't just fall out of the sky. Only now are we beginning to realize that we are in the midst of a new Cold War with Russia, a war whose objectives are economic and diplomatic rather than strictly military. Destruction of the NATO alliance that has kept the Russian bear in his cage, coupled with isolationism is creating a vacuum in the Western alliance that has guarded us for seventy years. Who is the big beneficiary of this bizarre shift?

Russia and Donald Trump, that's who. The Russians dreamed up this new Cold War strategy and invested the personnel and technology to make it happen. Mr. Trump came along, saw the confusion caused by the shift and seized his chance to ride the new world order to the White House. To what degree does he understand that while he was cleverly using the Russians to get elected, the Russians were even more cleverly using him and a number of other ethnic nationalists to undermine the walls of the Western Fortress? It may take a special prosecutor for us to find out.

there is no "destruction of the NATO alliance."
You blame the right..which president started NATO expansionism after the reunification of Germany -
despite expressed promises not to do so? It was Clinton.

Russian aid in Syria and open conquest in the Crimea and Ukraine were cited by Republicans as well as Democrats as proof that the Russian bear had not changed.

Syria is a Russian client state -always has been. for 40+years Russia has no say in the middle east except Tartus
( re-supply point).
Thanks in a large part to Obama's needless sanctioning of Egypt's el-Sisi, and working the Iran deal while
threatening Saudi Arabia with withholding of weapons sales -both countries turned to Russia.

As a result Russia has contract for nuclear plants in SA,and Egypt has commercial ties for agriculture
and concrete - as well as weapons purchases.

The US under Obama meddled in Ukrainian elections- and Ukraine is a border state of Russia.

There is still talk of NATO expansion including the Ukraine
We tried to get them to join with NATO for economics -peeling away natural ties with Russia.
It' s been a disaster for the Ukraine, but we don't give a damn about Ukraine.
All we care about is jamming up Putin.
and all we look at is a "zero sum" game whee if Putin loses we we win. That's mindless Cold war thinking.
PS. I appreciate the tone of your writings -very thoughtful


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/09/ukraine-needs-russia-nicolai-petro
In January 2016 Ukraine’s president, Petro Poroshenko, congratulated the country on surviving its first winter without buying Russian gas. It had instead bought European gas which, as Poroshenko pointed out proudly, was 30% more expensive.

This sums up the core problem facing the Ukrainian economy. It is not corruption, a serious issue about which little can be done in the short term, but the ideologically driven choice to sever all ties with Russia, the country that has historically been its major trading partner and chief investor.

In little over a year, living standards in Ukraine have fallen by half, the value of the currency has slumped by more than two-thirds, and inflation has skyrocketed to 43%. Yet, even as the economy has collapsed, the government has insisted on economic policies that can only be termed suicidal.

By tearing up contracts with Russia in 2014, Ukraine’s defence and aviation industries lost 80% of their income. Once the pride of Kiev, airline manufacturer Antonov was liquidated and it assets transferred to another state-owned conglomerate, while rocket engine producer Yuzhmash is now working just one day a week....

 

[anatta]

Assuming you opinion is true, that would be because of the mistrust, not the cooperation~see the difference??

The Russians were involved in this election, the trumpf campaign had contact w/ the Russians, a blind man can see this here

The Russians hacked the DNC, and Podesta. That's all they did.
And i m not really sure about that as the "proof"is only the malware used -common enough for E European hackers.
Knowing the 'built in hysteria' ( after all the IC was built as a Cold War machine to use against Russia)-
I tend to view their "reports" with a health dose of skepticism ..

anyways.. say it's true.
where do you see any cooperation with Russia? we do a joint exercise or 2 each year for counter-terrorism
The rest of the time we are pouring more and more weapons into Cold War 2.0 -for what?
has i made us any safer?has it checked Putin's expansionism in the middle east? did it stop the "little green men" annexation of Crimea?
So why don't we try something different? We could tell Russia that if we caught them doing anything to meddle in anymore elections -boom-that's it. all bets are off,and we a re not going to ever give them access to western banking, or high tech for drilling in the Arctic, or helping them in any way.

What I'm saying is this is not helping either Europe or the west,or the US. and this HYSTERIA
is blocking any sane attempts at even cooling down the rhetoric, much less advancing relations

 

[Bill]

The Russians hacked the DNC, and Podesta. That's all they did.
And i m not really sure about that as the "proof"is only the malware used -common enough for E European hackers.
Knowing the 'built in hysteria' ( after all the IC was built as a Cold War machine to use against Russia)-
I tend to view their "reports" with a health dose of skepticism ..

anyways.. say it's true.
where do you see any cooperation with Russia? we do a joint exercise or 2 each year for counter-terrorism
The rest of the time we are pouring more and more weapons into Cold War 2.0 -for what?
has i made us any safer?has it checked Putin's expansionism in the middle east? did it stop the "little green men" annexation of Crimea?
So why don't we try something different? We could tell Russia that if we caught them doing anything to meddle in anymore elections -boom-that's it. all bets are off,and we a re not going to ever give them access to western banking, or high tech for drilling in the Arctic, or helping them in any way.

What I'm saying is this is not helping either Europe or the west,or the US. and this HYSTERIA
is blocking any sane attempts at even cooling down the rhetoric, much less advancing relations

I dunno wtf happened to you but if you can so flippantly dismiss & excuse away something like that, I don't really think discussing it w/ you is even feasible.........

Best of luck in your defense of these egregious acts & the bumbling admin attempting lie, down play & excuse it.............

 

[anatta]

I dunno wtf happened to you but if you can so flippantly dismiss & excuse away something like that, I don't really think discussing it w/ you is even feasible.........

Best of luck in your defense of these egregious acts & the bumbling admin attempting lie, down play & excuse it.............

you are choosing not to see anything we haven't been talking about since before the election. I am not "downplaying it"
I am putting it in the context of US/Russian relations which are at an all time low -and were so before the election.

so you can wallow in it like the Dems/McCain are doing -or you can look to solve it as I propose.
I am tired of reactionarism where nothing changes and gets worse

 

[Bill]

I am putting it in the context of US/Russian relations which are at an all time low -and were so before the election.

& now you are trying to say it's @ an all time low, worse than the cold war, worse than when we had tens of thousands of nuclear weapons pointed @ us every day & night, 24/7/365.

Dude, get a grip..........

I have said what I had to say.........