Another reason why we need the Public Option!

signalmankenneth said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34019606/ns/health-health_care/

Without the Public Option, the healthcare insurers and providers, will continue to run their Mack Truck up the American People's Hershey Highway! Greed is the main reason behind the opposition to the Public Option, not debt! Hell Bush doubled the national debt in eight years in office and there is nothing to show for it either!
Click to expand...

Yes, and it is SOOooooo much better to have Uncle Sam running their Mack Truck up our Hershey Highway, isn't it?

Greed is NOT the main reason for opposition to the public option! The main reason is because it will bankrupt our nation, and then NO ONE will have any goddamn health care!

What Bush did 8 years ago, has abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING to do with this debate, and is a strawman you throw out to deflect criticism for the cost of this behemoth. Do you not understand, with the cost of this program tacked on to our already alarming national debt, the interest in a decade will be nearly a trillion dollars per year? Do you pinheads even have any concept as to how much money we are talking about? If you took 100% of ALL corporate earnings from Fortune 500 companies, over the next 150 years, it couldn't pay off our national debt! And all the fuck you nitwits want to do, is spend another 2 trillion tax dollars to provide marginal health care to maybe 15 million Americans who can't get health care insurance now.
 
The World Health Organization's ranking

Dixie said:
Yes, and it is SOOooooo much better to have Uncle Sam running their Mack Truck up our Hershey Highway, isn't it?

Greed is NOT the main reason for opposition to the public option! The main reason is because it will bankrupt our nation, and then NO ONE will have any goddamn health care!

What Bush did 8 years ago, has abso-fucking-lutely NOTHING to do with this debate, and is a strawman you throw out to deflect criticism for the cost of this behemoth. Do you not understand, with the cost of this program tacked on to our already alarming national debt, the interest in a decade will be nearly a trillion dollars per year? Do you pinheads even have any concept as to how much money we are talking about? If you took 100% of ALL corporate earnings from Fortune 500 companies, over the next 150 years, it couldn't pay off our national debt! And all the fuck you nitwits want to do, is spend another 2 trillion tax dollars to provide marginal health care to maybe 15 million Americans who can't get health care insurance now.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we are number one in the world in healthcare??? Try 37th and we spend more on healthcare than any other nation in the world and 37th???

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
101 Moldova
102 Bulgaria
103 Iraq
104 Armenia
105 Latvia
106 Yugoslavia
107 Cook Islands
108 Syria
109 Azerbaijan
110 Suriname
111 Ecuador
112 India
113 Cape Verde
114 Georgia
115 El Salvador
116 Tonga
117 Uzbekistan
118 Comoros
119 Samoa
120 Yemen
121 Niue
122 Pakistan
123 Micronesia
124 Bhutan
125 Brazil
126 Bolivia
127 Vanuatu
128 Guyana
129 Peru
130 Russia
131 Honduras
132 Burkina Faso
133 Sao Tome and Principe
134 Sudan
135 Ghana
136 Tuvalu
137 Ivory Coast
138 Haiti
139 Gabon
140 Kenya
141 Marshall Islands
142 Kiribati
143 Burundi
144 China
145 Mongolia
146 Gambia
147 Maldives
148 Papua New Guinea
149 Uganda
150 Nepal
151 Kyrgystan
152 Togo
153 Turkmenistan
154 Tajikistan
155 Zimbabwe
156 Tanzania
157 Djibouti
158 Eritrea
159 Madagascar
160 Vietnam
161 Guinea
162 Mauritania
163 Mali
164 Cameroon
165 Laos
166 Congo
167 North Korea
168 Namibia
169 Botswana
170 Niger
171 Equatorial Guinea
172 Rwanda
173 Afghanistan
174 Cambodia
175 South Africa
176 Guinea-Bissau
177 Swaziland
178 Chad
179 Somalia
180 Ethiopia
181 Angola
182 Zambia
183 Lesotho
184 Mozambique
185 Malawi
186 Liberia
187 Nigeria
188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
189 Central African Republic
190 Myanmar
 
Ken, that is a statistic based solely on mortality rates.... how long people live. For a VARIETY of reasons, people can live longer in certain regions, with certain cultures, with particular conditions, etc.... it doesn't necessarily relate to the quality of health care they receive or have available. This is one of those tricky little stats they throw out there for stupid people to glum onto, without using your noodle.

The US has led the way in health care for the past century, in terms of research, technological advancements, unprecedented procedures, pioneering vaccines and cures for disease. People flock to the US to receive major surgeries, whenever their pocketbooks allow it. To try and portray our health care system as some third world catastrophe, is just not living in the real world.

As for the cost of health care... not one single solitary measure has been proposed in the current bill, or any of the alternate bills, which would effectively reduce the cost of health care. NOT ONE THING! This "scheme" is designed solely to change who pays the bill, and has nothing to do with cost. Instead of private insurance companies and individuals paying the bill, it will be the government paying... and the government is broke. They are currently mulling over how to pay for this craziness, and it seems they have determined that the elderly don't need as much Medicare as they had, so they plan to cut it! Did you hear me? They plan to CUT Medicare for the elderly, in order to subsidize Socialized Health Care!
 
1.) They are raising taxes on expensive health insurance plans, which is essentially a fancy tax on the rich, along with raising taxes on those making 250k a year or more. Although the new taxes will probably cause some people to drop the uber-expensive plans, I would imagine they've taken this into account in modeling the expected revenue, in a much more rational manner than the automatic infinite discouragement conservatives automatically assign to any tax at all.

2.) They are eliminating Medicare Advantage, which cost 30 billion a year and provided no conceivable benefit to the elderly.
 
Last edited:
Watermark said:
I would imagine they've taken this into account in modeling the expected revenue, in a much more rational manner than the automatic infinite discouragement conservatives automatically assign to any tax at all.
Click to expand...

this is the one thing I love and hate about you liberals. your willful ignorance of reality and human thinking. It's refreshing, yet horrifying in its stupid simplicity.
 
Never hear anything from the loony lefties about the spiraling healthcare cost crisis in other countries, including France. What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?

signalmankenneth said:
Yeah, we are number one in the world in healthcare??? Try 37th and we spend more on healthcare than any other nation in the world and 37th???

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
101 Moldova
102 Bulgaria
103 Iraq
104 Armenia
105 Latvia
106 Yugoslavia
107 Cook Islands
108 Syria
109 Azerbaijan
110 Suriname
111 Ecuador
112 India
113 Cape Verde
114 Georgia
115 El Salvador
116 Tonga
117 Uzbekistan
118 Comoros
119 Samoa
120 Yemen
121 Niue
122 Pakistan
123 Micronesia
124 Bhutan
125 Brazil
126 Bolivia
127 Vanuatu
128 Guyana
129 Peru
130 Russia
131 Honduras
132 Burkina Faso
133 Sao Tome and Principe
134 Sudan
135 Ghana
136 Tuvalu
137 Ivory Coast
138 Haiti
139 Gabon
140 Kenya
141 Marshall Islands
142 Kiribati
143 Burundi
144 China
145 Mongolia
146 Gambia
147 Maldives
148 Papua New Guinea
149 Uganda
150 Nepal
151 Kyrgystan
152 Togo
153 Turkmenistan
154 Tajikistan
155 Zimbabwe
156 Tanzania
157 Djibouti
158 Eritrea
159 Madagascar
160 Vietnam
161 Guinea
162 Mauritania
163 Mali
164 Cameroon
165 Laos
166 Congo
167 North Korea
168 Namibia
169 Botswana
170 Niger
171 Equatorial Guinea
172 Rwanda
173 Afghanistan
174 Cambodia
175 South Africa
176 Guinea-Bissau
177 Swaziland
178 Chad
179 Somalia
180 Ethiopia
181 Angola
182 Zambia
183 Lesotho
184 Mozambique
185 Malawi
186 Liberia
187 Nigeria
188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
189 Central African Republic
190 Myanmar
Click to expand...
 
signalmankenneth said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34019606/ns/health-health_care/

Without the Public Option, the healthcare insurers and providers, will continue to run their Mack Truck up the American People's Hershey Highway! Greed is the main reason behind the opposition to the Public Option, not debt! Hell Bush doubled the national debt in eight years in office and there is nothing to show for it either!
Click to expand...

No, what we need is for government to get out of the health care market, because it has been distorting it so badly for decades, that prices have spiraled out of control. The mandate that employers provide health insurance, primarily in the form of the HMO has enthroned the insurance companies and distorted the health insurance market beyond what most people can afford. The "public option" is nothing more than an even more egregious distortion of the market; a deeper commitment to corporatist health care.

If consumers actually purchased health insurance directly instead of employers and paid for regular medical expenses themselves, real and vigorous competition would be re-introduced into the market. Prices would drop out of necessity. Mandating health insurance coverage will absolutely enthrone health insurance corporations to the point that the legal health care market will be accompanied by a black market of health care. Prices will continue to go up an up, and the state will begin to ration services as costs become unsustainable. The market needs to be rid of state intervention in order to correct itself and begin to work for ordinary health care consumers and health care providers. We need way, way less government in health care, not the other way around.
 
ironhead said:
No, what we need is for government to get out of the health care market, because it has been distorting it so badly for decades, that prices have spiraled out of control. The mandate that employers provide health insurance, primarily in the form of the HMO has enthroned the insurance companies and distorted the health insurance market beyond what most people can afford. The "public option" is nothing more than an even more egregious distortion of the market; a deeper commitment to corporatist health care.

If consumers actually purchased health insurance directly instead of employers and paid for regular medical expenses themselves, real and vigorous competition would be re-introduced into the market. Prices would drop out of necessity. Mandating health insurance coverage will absolutely enthrone health insurance corporations to the point that the legal health care market will be accompanied by a black market of health care. Prices will continue to go up an up, and the state will begin to ration services as costs become unsustainable. The market needs to be rid of state intervention in order to correct itself and begin to work for ordinary health care consumers and health care providers. We need way, way less government in health care, not the other way around.
Click to expand...

hc-pro-lifers.jpg
 
signalmankenneth said:
Yeah, we are number one in the world in healthcare??? Try 37th and we spend more on healthcare than any other nation in the world and 37th???

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.

Rank Country

1 France
....
Click to expand...

How many people die in France every summer because their AC doesn't work? How many cars get burned when the Muslims riot?

I take US "shoddy" health care any day than go to that hell hole. LOL
 
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