Americans May Be Too Religious To Embrace Socialism

cawacko

Well-known member
If religion is what keeps us from socialism than Yay religion!




Americans May Be Too Religious To Embrace Socialism


For over a century, scholars have wondered why the United States has never had a viable socialist movement. Socialist parties in other Western democracies, such as Britain’s Labour Party and Germany’s Social Democratic Party, are regularly in and out of power, but the best socialist showing for president in the U.S. was Eugene Debs’s 6 percent in 1912.1

Bernie Sanders has made socialism relevant again in this country. But will the U.S. join much of Western Europe in developing a successful socialist political tradition? Short of that, will the Sanders campaign ignite a new movement? Both are unlikely, at least for now, and a big part of the explanation why may lie in religion — religion inhibits socialism’s spread and explains its lack of political mobilization.

To understand the relationship between socialist values and religion, we used the 2013 Public Religion Research Institute’s “Economic Values Study.” As part of the survey, respondents were asked how much they agreed with a battery of statements regarding economic values, including “It is the responsibility of the government to take care of people who can’t take care of themselves,” The government should do more to reduce the gap between the rich and poor” and “The government should guarantee health insurance for all citizens.” We combined these into a “socialism scale,” the results of which suggest the average American is just left of center.

The conventional wisdom is that the individualist, evangelical style of American religion is a strong antidote to socialism. If faith alone can lead you to salvation, then efforts to reshape society are beside the point. But the animosity between them has been more pointed, especially regarding so called “Godless communists” who portrayed religion as the “opiate of the masses.” In these data, those who agreed that social problems would be resolved if enough people had a personal relationship with God were 20 percent less socialist than those who disagreed. A worldview that pits faith directly against collective action explains clearly why collectivist efforts have traditionally foundered in the U.S.

By the same token, Americans who are not religious (sometimes called the Nones)2 would be those most likely to hold socialist values. And indeed, this is what we find: Nones are 10 percent more socialist, on average, than religious Americans. The gap is greater among older people (15 percentage points at retirement age) and smaller among the young (5 percentage points at 18-24), perhaps because younger people are exposed to many more Nones and to greater economic insecurity than their elders. In what may be seen as a cruel irony given Sanders’s difficulty with black voters, there is no such gap among nonwhite respondents — support for socialist values is high across the board. Even more, nonwhite respondents favor socialist values at equivalent levels as white Nones.


It seems that the Nones are key to socialism’s fortune. While their growth in numbers may lead to more openness to socialist ideas, that is by no means certain. Nones are at a disadvantage in politics precisely because they lack religious affiliation: Churches are the most widespread social organizations in the U.S. Though not their primary purpose, churches connect individuals to political organizations and identities. Nones lack the organizational structure that helps connect their ideology to politics — in these data, 20 percent more young Nones are Independents than their religious peers, and they vote in very low numbers (about 12 percent in recent elections). Perhaps a portion of the lower than expected turnout among the young this nomination season can be attributed to the Nones.

Will socialism take hold in America in the near future? Though surveys continue to note majority support for socialist positions (especially among the young), its path is more difficult without the unifying and mobilizing force of religion.

For now, expect to see more of Hillary Clinton’s liberalism than Sanders’s democratic socialism.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...gious-to-embrace-socialism/?ex_cid=538twitter
 
No offense, but DUH

Why do you think the left wages a constant assault on Christianity?

Read the works of Marx. To bring about their socialis/communist utopia, they must eliminate religion, family and private property.

Those three things are the biggest hinderances to big government than anything else
 
If religion is what keeps us from socialism than Yay religion!




Americans May Be Too Religious To Embrace Socialism


For over a century, scholars have wondered why the United States has never had a viable socialist movement. Socialist parties in other Western democracies, such as Britain’s Labour Party and Germany’s Social Democratic Party, are regularly in and out of power, but the best socialist showing for president in the U.S. was Eugene Debs’s 6 percent in 1912.1

Bernie Sanders has made socialism relevant again in this country. But will the U.S. join much of Western Europe in developing a successful socialist political tradition? Short of that, will the Sanders campaign ignite a new movement? Both are unlikely, at least for now, and a big part of the explanation why may lie in religion — religion inhibits socialism’s spread and explains its lack of political mobilization.

To understand the relationship between socialist values and religion, we used the 2013 Public Religion Research Institute’s “Economic Values Study.” As part of the survey, respondents were asked how much they agreed with a battery of statements regarding economic values, including “It is the responsibility of the government to take care of people who can’t take care of themselves,” The government should do more to reduce the gap between the rich and poor” and “The government should guarantee health insurance for all citizens.” We combined these into a “socialism scale,” the results of which suggest the average American is just left of center.

The conventional wisdom is that the individualist, evangelical style of American religion is a strong antidote to socialism. If faith alone can lead you to salvation, then efforts to reshape society are beside the point. But the animosity between them has been more pointed, especially regarding so called “Godless communists” who portrayed religion as the “opiate of the masses.” In these data, those who agreed that social problems would be resolved if enough people had a personal relationship with God were 20 percent less socialist than those who disagreed. A worldview that pits faith directly against collective action explains clearly why collectivist efforts have traditionally foundered in the U.S.

By the same token, Americans who are not religious (sometimes called the Nones)2 would be those most likely to hold socialist values. And indeed, this is what we find: Nones are 10 percent more socialist, on average, than religious Americans. The gap is greater among older people (15 percentage points at retirement age) and smaller among the young (5 percentage points at 18-24), perhaps because younger people are exposed to many more Nones and to greater economic insecurity than their elders. In what may be seen as a cruel irony given Sanders’s difficulty with black voters, there is no such gap among nonwhite respondents — support for socialist values is high across the board. Even more, nonwhite respondents favor socialist values at equivalent levels as white Nones.


It seems that the Nones are key to socialism’s fortune. While their growth in numbers may lead to more openness to socialist ideas, that is by no means certain. Nones are at a disadvantage in politics precisely because they lack religious affiliation: Churches are the most widespread social organizations in the U.S. Though not their primary purpose, churches connect individuals to political organizations and identities. Nones lack the organizational structure that helps connect their ideology to politics — in these data, 20 percent more young Nones are Independents than their religious peers, and they vote in very low numbers (about 12 percent in recent elections). Perhaps a portion of the lower than expected turnout among the young this nomination season can be attributed to the Nones.

Will socialism take hold in America in the near future? Though surveys continue to note majority support for socialist positions (especially among the young), its path is more difficult without the unifying and mobilizing force of religion.

For now, expect to see more of Hillary Clinton’s liberalism than Sanders’s democratic socialism.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...gious-to-embrace-socialism/?ex_cid=538twitter
The problem with this argument is that it's a completely false dichotomy. Particularly when you consider that large numbers of people don't even understand what socialism is and how is has been present in their daily lives for a very long time. In fact very few people in our nation accept the fact of how important socialist institutions, like our armed services, are to our nation. I think the best example I've seen of that was the tea bagger who had a sign that read "Keep your socialist hands off of my Medicare.".

So the real answer to this utterly false dichotomy of will the US ever become a purely socialist nation? No. It won't. There's as much chance of that happening as of us becoming a purely capitalist nation.
 
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The problem with this argument is that it's a completely false dichotomy. Particularly when you consider that large numbers of people don't even understand what socialism is and how is has been present in their daily lives for a very long time.

I think people know pretty well what socialism is as one need only look around the globe to see its results.
 
I think people know pretty well what socialism is as one need only look around the globe to see its results.
Only if you don't understand what socialism is and you're not objective. Wacko, you confuse socialism with communism. The nations in northern Europe that you like to beat up on also have higher median standards of living and longer life expectencies than we do. They must be doing something right. You also confuse command economies with market economies.

There's no arguing that market economies preform better than command economies but many market economies, like ours, successfully employ "socialism" when the market fails to provide goods or services at a reasonable cost.

Meaning market economies are great but your belief in them is irrational and near religious. They are not the answer to every problem. Would you want our armed services to be a market based military? Hell no! You'd have to be crazy to do that.
 
If religion is what keeps us from socialism than Yay religion!




Americans May Be Too Religious To Embrace Socialism


For over a century, scholars have wondered why the United States has never had a viable socialist movement. Socialist parties in other Western democracies, such as Britain’s Labour Party and Germany’s Social Democratic Party, are regularly in and out of power, but the best socialist showing for president in the U.S. was Eugene Debs’s 6 percent in 1912.1

Bernie Sanders has made socialism relevant again in this country. But will the U.S. join much of Western Europe in developing a successful socialist political tradition? Short of that, will the Sanders campaign ignite a new movement? Both are unlikely, at least for now, and a big part of the explanation why may lie in religion — religion inhibits socialism’s spread and explains its lack of political mobilization.

To understand the relationship between socialist values and religion, we used the 2013 Public Religion Research Institute’s “Economic Values Study.” As part of the survey, respondents were asked how much they agreed with a battery of statements regarding economic values, including “It is the responsibility of the government to take care of people who can’t take care of themselves,” The government should do more to reduce the gap between the rich and poor” and “The government should guarantee health insurance for all citizens.” We combined these into a “socialism scale,” the results of which suggest the average American is just left of center.

The conventional wisdom is that the individualist, evangelical style of American religion is a strong antidote to socialism. If faith alone can lead you to salvation, then efforts to reshape society are beside the point. But the animosity between them has been more pointed, especially regarding so called “Godless communists” who portrayed religion as the “opiate of the masses.” In these data, those who agreed that social problems would be resolved if enough people had a personal relationship with God were 20 percent less socialist than those who disagreed. A worldview that pits faith directly against collective action explains clearly why collectivist efforts have traditionally foundered in the U.S.

By the same token, Americans who are not religious (sometimes called the Nones)2 would be those most likely to hold socialist values. And indeed, this is what we find: Nones are 10 percent more socialist, on average, than religious Americans. The gap is greater among older people (15 percentage points at retirement age) and smaller among the young (5 percentage points at 18-24), perhaps because younger people are exposed to many more Nones and to greater economic insecurity than their elders. In what may be seen as a cruel irony given Sanders’s difficulty with black voters, there is no such gap among nonwhite respondents — support for socialist values is high across the board. Even more, nonwhite respondents favor socialist values at equivalent levels as white Nones.


It seems that the Nones are key to socialism’s fortune. While their growth in numbers may lead to more openness to socialist ideas, that is by no means certain. Nones are at a disadvantage in politics precisely because they lack religious affiliation: Churches are the most widespread social organizations in the U.S. Though not their primary purpose, churches connect individuals to political organizations and identities. Nones lack the organizational structure that helps connect their ideology to politics — in these data, 20 percent more young Nones are Independents than their religious peers, and they vote in very low numbers (about 12 percent in recent elections). Perhaps a portion of the lower than expected turnout among the young this nomination season can be attributed to the Nones.

Will socialism take hold in America in the near future? Though surveys continue to note majority support for socialist positions (especially among the young), its path is more difficult without the unifying and mobilizing force of religion.

For now, expect to see more of Hillary Clinton’s liberalism than Sanders’s democratic socialism.


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...gious-to-embrace-socialism/?ex_cid=538twitter

As one who was brought up a Christian Socialist, I'd suggest that the problem not the prevalence of religion but the dearth of Christianity.
 
Only if you don't understand what socialism is and you're not objective. Wacko, you confuse socialism with communism. The nations in northern Europe that you like to beat up on also have higher median standards of living and longer life expectencies than we do. They must be doing something right. You also confuse command economies with market economies.

There's no arguing that market economies preform better than command economies but many market economies, like ours, successfully employ "socialism" when the market fails to provide goods or services at a reasonable cost.

Meaning market economies are great but your belief in them is irrational and near religious. They are not the answer to every problem. Would you want our armed services to be a market based military? Hell no! You'd have to be crazy to do that.

The context of the article and discussion about socialism is not about privatizing our army. The last sentence of the piece says it all
 
The context of the article and discussion about socialism is not about privatizing our army. The last sentence of the piece says it all
That's not my point and you know it. We, the USA, has never had a problem adopting socialist institutions when it is to our advantage. Our military, public education, public utilities, community health and hospitals systems, our roads and infrastructure, our social safety nets, etc, all products of socialism. So the last sentence doesn't say it all.

I don't agree with Bernie on all his domestic policies and his smoke and mirrors approach to financing the ones he is right on, i.e. education and infrastructure, hardly inspires confidence. Though Bernie is correct. We need to invest more aggressively to both improve our infrastructure and to decrease the cost of higher education and to expand higher education to include in demand trade and technical skills. It's just on how Bernie wants to finance it that things are rather unclear. If you want to call that socialism...and it is...fine with me. We still need them.

My point being, there is a time and a place for socialism and just because we use some elements of socialism in our society doesn't mean that we are a command economy or will ever become one. The false dichotomy here is that socialism and market economies are mutually exclusive when that is clearly not always the case.
 
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Education and healthcare will be the next to be socialized.
We are too rich not too!
As these redneck pagans die off we will get there
 
Education and healthcare will be the next to be socialized.
We are too rich not too!
As these redneck pagans die off we will get there

Socialize education? What do you think we have now?

We are in the 21st century with amazing technology at our fingertips and you want to move education backwards?
 
You are aware there are several European countries with way higher per capita gdp!
Right

I am very aware these European countries have a very limited military budget because they rely on the U.S. to protect them. Let that switch and it would be a game changer for them.
 
Socialize education? What do you think we have now?

We are in the 21st century with amazing technology at our fingertips and you want to move education backwards?

We can and will do way more in making college more accessible, in not focusing on Jr high like you poor people do.
I want too more education forward way faster than you do!
Thanks
 
We can and will do way more in making college more accessible, in not focusing on Jr high like you poor people do.
I want too more education forward way faster than you do!
Thanks

LOL. Our economic challenges go beyond just "free" education. First start with the quality, especially in our poor neighborhoods. Too many people fight to keep a failing status quo for poor students. You live near New Orleans I know they are making changes there.

Going forward we are going to see more school happening on the Internet. More cost affective and accessible. People will still pay $60K plus a year to go to elite Universities but that's not for everyone.
 
Only if you don't understand what socialism is and you're not objective. Wacko, you confuse socialism with communism. The nations in northern Europe that you like to beat up on also have higher median standards of living and longer life expectencies than we do. They must be doing something right. You also confuse command economies with market economies.

There's no arguing that market economies preform better than command economies but many market economies, like ours, successfully employ "socialism" when the market fails to provide goods or services at a reasonable cost.

Meaning market economies are great but your belief in them is irrational and near religious. They are not the answer to every problem. Would you want our armed services to be a market based military? Hell no! You'd have to be crazy to do that.

Most nations that went to communism were poor before communism. It's not surprising that they were poor during it. And whenever they came out of it they only succeeded because the people were educated well under the communist system.
 
The wonders of capitalism:

2000px-GDP_of_Russia_since_1989.svg.png
 
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