After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

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After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

MILWAUKEE – It's the roar that made Milwaukee famous — the distinctive throaty rumble of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle. But that much-loved racket could be rumbling away to another state if the company cannot bring down its labor costs.

Harley-Davidson warned employees in April that it will move its Wisconsin manufacturing operations elsewhere if it cannot cut millions of dollars at the factories that build the bikes known as "Milwaukee Iron."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100804/ap_on_bi_ge/us_harley_milwaukee_breakup

i'll bet unions are involved and if so, they appear set to break another company with exorbitant labor costs
 
After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

MILWAUKEE – It's the roar that made Milwaukee famous — the distinctive throaty rumble of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle. But that much-loved racket could be rumbling away to another state if the company cannot bring down its labor costs.

Harley-Davidson warned employees in April that it will move its Wisconsin manufacturing operations elsewhere if it cannot cut millions of dollars at the factories that build the bikes known as "Milwaukee Iron."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100804/ap_on_bi_ge/us_harley_milwaukee_breakup

i'll bet unions are involved and if so, they appear set to break another company with exorbitant labor costs


I'm *shocked* that you reflexively blame the unions and their "exorbitant labor costs" without any information regarding their compensation.

Seems to me that Harley is making idle threats to extract concessions from their workers through fear tactics. Pretty typical, really.
 
After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

MILWAUKEE – It's the roar that made Milwaukee famous — the distinctive throaty rumble of a Harley-Davidson motorcycle. But that much-loved racket could be rumbling away to another state if the company cannot bring down its labor costs.

Harley-Davidson warned employees in April that it will move its Wisconsin manufacturing operations elsewhere if it cannot cut millions of dollars at the factories that build the bikes known as "Milwaukee Iron."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100804/ap_on_bi_ge/us_harley_milwaukee_breakup

i'll bet unions are involved and if so, they appear set to break another company with exorbitant labor costs
You can be such a partisan idiot. Will you be happy when everyone is making less then a $1/day? Like it's the fuckin uninons fault for fighting for a living wage.

Well I'll tell you this right now Yurtsie. I bet I know one hell of a lot more Harley riders then you do and if they remove their operations over seas or to a right to work state Harley Davidson can kiss it's ass good bye cause it will kill sales. They would be lucky to sell 5 bikes in the US if they do something stupid like that.
 
I'm *shocked* that you reflexively blame the unions and their "exorbitant labor costs" without any information regarding their compensation.

Seems to me that Harley is making idle threats to extract concessions from their workers through fear tactics. Pretty typical, really.
That would be my guess. In one fell swoop Yurt showed he don't know shit about manufacturing, unions, Harley's or Harley riders! LOL What a hillareous knee jerk that was.
 
I'm *shocked* that you reflexively blame the unions and their "exorbitant labor costs" without any information regarding their compensation.

Seems to me that Harley is making idle threats to extract concessions from their workers through fear tactics. Pretty typical, really.

am i right....must be, else you would have something of value to say
 
am i right....must be, else you would have something of value to say
No, you are not right, I would be more inclined to state that it is a combination of factors and like Mott stated, it is Harley trying to scare some people into changing things so their profit margin is better and the lives of their employees do not advance, but I am a big fan of organized labor, so I guess I don't count. I have seen it improve so many lives here in Anchorage that it is hard not to be a fan.
 
You can be such a partisan idiot. Will you be happy when everyone is making less then a $1/day? Like it's the fuckin uninons fault for fighting for a living wage.

Well I'll tell you this right now Yurtsie. I bet I know one hell of a lot more Harley riders then you do and if they remove their operations over seas or to a right to work state Harley Davidson can kiss it's ass good bye cause it will kill sales. They would be lucky to sell 5 bikes in the US if they do something stupid like that.

says the board king hack and partisan moron...look at how you try to make an argument by using a logical fallacy...reductio ad absurdum....no where did i ever say $1/day...

FACT: whatever the labor costs are now, it is not sustainable at harley

and your so called expertise on harley is nothing but socialist garbage...oh i won't buy a harley because they don't hire unions....what bullshit, why do you hate people who want to make a living and aren't in unions...your prediction of doom and gloom is nothing but far left partisan rhetoric
 
No, you are not right, I would be more inclined to state that it is a combination of factors and like Mott stated, it is Harley trying to scare some people into changing things so their profit margin is better and the lives of their employees do not advance, but I am a big fan of organized labor, so I guess I don't count. I have seen it improve so many lives here in Anchorage that it is hard not to be a fan.

really...you have no proof, only opinions, but i am not right...

how odd...
 
That would be my guess. In one fell swoop Yurt showed he don't know shit about manufacturing, unions, Harley's or Harley riders! LOL What a hillareous knee jerk that was.
Maybe Harley should stop to consider that maybe it is its skilled labor that makes the Harley great and if it leaves and goes elsewhere, will the skill factor follow???????????
 
am i right....must be, else you would have something of value to say


You might be right, you might not be.

My basic point, Yurt, is that you have no factual basis whatsoever for your statements. You don't like unions so you blame unions. That's stupid.
 
Unions had a purpose once. They helped improved working conditions and improved wages, but now, they refuse to concede anything when businesses need that. GM spends tons of money on their agreements with unions. They pay tons of money to people that don't even produce for them anymore. There has to be a happy medium. I don't want to go back to the days of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company but I also don't think that companies should be paying so much to union employees that it hurts the cost of doing business. Businesses exist to make money. If they don't they go where they can.
 
You might be right, you might not be.

My basic point, Yurt, is that you have no factual basis whatsoever for your statements. You don't like unions so you blame unions. That's stupid.

go back and read my OP...my statements are pure opinion and speculation

you have no factual basis to counter me other than your speculation and opinion....yet, somehow yours has greater weight....

:palm:
 
Maybe Harley should stop to consider that maybe it is its skilled labor that makes the Harley great and if it leaves and goes elsewhere, will the skill factor follow???????????

there is skilled labor all over the country, there are millions of skilled people without jobs, that the union, IMO, is going to ignore reality with their high labor costs, is not good for america
 
Unions had a purpose once. They helped improved working conditions and improved wages, but now, they refuse to concede anything when businesses need that. GM spends tons of money on their agreements with unions. They pay tons of money to people that don't even produce for them anymore. There has to be a happy medium. I don't want to go back to the days of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company but I also don't think that companies should be paying so much to union employees that it hurts the cost of doing business. Businesses exist to make money. If they don't they go where they can.

Unions can and do make concessions when necessary.

In fact, Harley already got concessions from their workforce in 2009.

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748703735004574572223566560450.html

Now, they want more.

The loss of Harley-Davidson would throw 1,400 employees in Menomonee Falls and Tomahawk out of work and land another major blow to Milwaukee’s heritage of heavy industry.


Employees here and in York, PA have previously taken cuts in pay and benefits, including lower pay for new hires and the loss of 4,500 jobs in exchange for keeping factories open. But company officials now say it wasn’t enough to offset the increased costs of production (energy, health and taxes) and drop in income due to the recession.

When costs go up and income drops, the only thing a company can do is lay-off employees, demand concessions on wages and benefits or close up shop.

This leads to problem number three — taxes. In the global economy, companies have options as to where to locate operations. Many items factor into where a company locates: prevailing employee wages, union presence, government regulations and taxes. Wisconsin has these things in spades. Companies can work with employees on wages and benefits, but Wisconsin’s overzealous anti-business legislation and legislators are harder to change.

While we do have lower income and sales taxes than some states, a recent business tax may be forcing Harley to look elsewhere and will factor into the choices of businessmen and women make regarding locating or keeping a business in Wisconsin.

“Combined reporting” requires companies based in Wisconsin with out-of-state subsidiaries elsewhere to report income from all locations as state income. In Harley Davidson’s case this increased their state tax burden by $22 million in 2009 over 2008. While it doesn’t make up the total Harley needs to cut to stay competitive, not having to pay this tax would be a big step in keeping them in the state.

Finally, Harley Davidson management needs to take some ownership of this problem. The recent closure of the Buell Motorcycle division was touted as a cost saving measure by management, when it actually was a giant cost drain. Instead of accepting a purchase offer from Canadian motorcycle builder Bombardier, they spent $121 to shut down the Buell division. Seems someone at Harley hasn’t heard that getting paid for something you don’t want anymore is better than spending $121 million to close it up.

We can hope Harley employees have learned from their Mercury counterparts and believe the company will leave if concessions aren’t approved. Isn’t a job at a lower wage better than no job at all? Isn’t having some health insurance coverage better than none at all while looking for a new job?

Even though Harley Davidson management says Wisconsin’s tax policies have nothing to do with the financial hardship it is dealing with, a $22 million tax increase can’t be discounted. Imagine if your tax rate jumped 10.6 percent in one year while your income dropped by 71 percent. It would be a hardship, right?

So while employees, management and politicians argue whether taxes or unions or the bad economy has caused this mess, they also need to look to themselves and do the right thing to keep this Milwaukee icon here and viable for generations to come.

http://thirdcoastdigest.com/2010/05/milwaukee-without-harley-a-real-possibility/

I feel sorry for the clients who rely on our board 'lawyers' research skills for due diligence - if they actually have any.
 
really...you have no proof, only opinions, but i am not right...

how odd...

Well golly,that's all you've got too...no proof, only your opinions.

If it's okay for you, why isn't it okay for Rana?

Oh right...I forgot you are another two-faced, partisan hack.
 
Well golly,that's all you've got too...no proof, only your opinions.

If it's okay for you, why isn't it okay for Rana?

Oh right...I forgot you are another two-faced, partisan hack.

Yurtsie forgot to accuse Rana of being a stalker and a troll. He must be having an emo fit.

Yurtsie!
 
Unions had a purpose once. They helped improved working conditions and improved wages, but now, they refuse to concede anything when businesses need that. GM spends tons of money on their agreements with unions. They pay tons of money to people that don't even produce for them anymore. There has to be a happy medium. I don't want to go back to the days of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company but I also don't think that companies should be paying so much to union employees that it hurts the cost of doing business. Businesses exist to make money. If they don't they go where they can.

So whose fault is it that some corporation made a bad deal with their union employees 50 years ago?

Who should pay?

Is it the 85 year old man who bargained in good faith with the corporation and now enjoys a nice retirement?

Should he have his benefits yanked because Management's overly optimistic business model for the 21st century didn't pan out as expected?

Maybe the contracts and golden parachutes of the corporate big-shots who helped drive these companies into the ground while padding their own 401k's should be reduced to pay for some concessions?

Why is it always the contracts of the WORKERS that has to be reworked for concessions?
 
This is, in my opinion, the main problem with globalization. The fact that suppressing labor can give you a market advantage. A nation that allows labor unions is going to have an advantage over one that does not, but it does not have anything to do with the free market. They gain their advantage through government force, by the government pushing their people further and further into poverty and slavery.
 
says the board king hack and partisan moron...look at how you try to make an argument by using a logical fallacy...reductio ad absurdum....no where did i ever say $1/day...

FACT: whatever the labor costs are now, it is not sustainable at harley

and your so called expertise on harley is nothing but socialist garbage...oh i won't buy a harley because they don't hire unions....what bullshit, why do you hate people who want to make a living and aren't in unions...your prediction of doom and gloom is nothing but far left partisan rhetoric
You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Harley has paid a divident for the last 10 years. They couldn't do that if their economic situation wasn't sustainable. Could they make more money if they had their Motorcycles manufactured in China witn $0.50/hour labor? Sure! But they'd have a marketing and PR disaster on their hands cause it's those same union scale working class people who buy their bikes!

As for the rest of your diatribe. It aint about fucking being made by union workers. It's about being made in the USA by skilled crafstman who take pride in their work and heritage but obviosly your the only mother fucker on this planet who deserves a living wage. You fucking moron wingnuts won't be happy until all working people are making the same wages as their Chinese counterparts.

That's what I don't get Yurt. Why the fuck do you hate working class people so much? What did they ever do to you besides trying to make an honest living and earn a living wage? Why do you hate them so much? They've done a hell of a lot more to build this nation into what it is then some hack lawyer. That's for sure.
 
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