A picture that's worth one thousand stolen E-Mails

The extra speed is attributed by scientists to the extra greenhouse gas production since the industrial revolution.

Does the Industrial Revolution include the Medieval Period? Because the emails revealed the speed and scope of current warming was indeed experienced back then, and it was not outside the norms for our planet. That was what they were hiding and covering up, and it destroys the argument that current warming is man made, or that man is even contributing in any significant way.
 
Does the Industrial Revolution include the Medieval Period? Because the emails revealed the speed and scope of current warming was indeed experienced back then, and it was not outside the norms for our planet. That was what they were hiding and covering up, and it destroys the argument that current warming is man made, or that man is even contributing in any significant way.

That's not at all what they were "hiding and covering up." They weren't hiding or covering up anything. The emails didn't say shit about the medieval warming period. They were talking about tree ring data that diverged from recorded records in the 1960s for reasons for which there have been many papers written.

And no, there wasn't any time in the Medieval period where global temperatures rose as quickly as they have been since 1850. The warming trend in the middle ages took 1200 years to happen, then fell off for reasons I won't bother explaining to a guy who doesn't understand 1/3.

2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png


See that slow gradual rise from year 0 to about 1200 before the great cooling? Then look ahead at the not at all gradual rise in temperatures beginning in 1850. Show me on the graph where the fuck in the middles there was a spike that looks anything like the one from 1850 to 2000s.

Dixie, you need to put me back on ignore because every time we have a conversation you get royally pwned. It's great fun for me, but it's got to be hugely embarrassing for you.
 
Last edited:
No surprise here. Non-partisan and highly respected and credible FACTCHECK.org debunks the claims of the flat-earth climate denialists.

Really, is anyone surprised? The same idiots who were easily fooled into the Iraq Fiasco, are the same idiots that immediately fell for the “Climate Gate” baloney as promoted by Rightwing blogs.

Anyone who isn’t a scientific illiterate, or a total partisan hack knows this climate gate stuff belongs in the Conspiracy Theory section of the Board.


FACTCHECK.ORG Analysis of “ClimateGate”

Reader’s Digest Summary of FactCheck.org’s Analysis of “ClimateGate”:

-The emails don’t change the scientific consensus on climate change

-Flat-earther Climate denialists have been misrepresenting the emails (I’m not one bit surprised)… Claims that the e-mails are evidence of fraud or deceit, however, misrepresent what they actually say.




FACTCHECK.ORG on “Climategate”

Hacked e-mails show climate scientists in a bad light but don't change scientific consensus on global warming.

December 10, 2009

Summary
In late November 2009, more than 1,000 e-mails between scientists at the Climate Research Unit of the U.K.’s University of East Anglia were stolen and made public by an as-yet-unnamed hacker. Climate skeptics are claiming that they show scientific misconduct that amounts to the complete fabrication of man-made global warming. We find that to be unfounded:

• The messages, which span 13 years, show a few scientists in a bad light, being rude or dismissive. An investigation is underway, but there’s still plenty of evidence that the earth is getting warmer and that humans are largely responsible.
• Some critics say the e-mails negate the conclusions of a 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, but the IPCC report relied on data from a large number of sources, of which CRU was only one.
• E-mails being cited as "smoking guns" have been misrepresented. For instance, one e-mail that refers to "hiding the decline" isn’t talking about a decline in actual temperatures as measured at weather stations. These have continued to rise, and 2009 may turn out to be the fifth warmest year ever recorded. The "decline" actually refers to a problem with recent data from tree rings.

Analysis

Skeptics claim this trove of e-mails shows the scientists at the U.K. research center were engaging in evidence-tampering, and they are portraying the affair as a major scandal: "Climategate." Saudi Arabian climate negotiator Mohammad Al-Sabban went so far as to tell the BBC: "It appears from the details of the scandal that there is no relationship whatsoever between human activities and climate change." He said that he expected news of the e-mails to disrupt the U.N. climate summit in Copenhagen this month. An article from the conservative-leaning Canada Free Press claims that the stolen files are proof of a "deliberate fraud" and "the greatest deception in history."

Missing the Mark

We find such claims to be far wide of the mark. The e-mails (which have been made available by an unidentified individual here) do show a few scientists talking frankly among themselves — sometimes being rude, dismissive, insular, or even behaving like jerks. Whether they show anything beyond that is still in doubt. There are two investigations underway, by the U.K.’s Met Office and East Anglia University, and the head of CRU, Phil Jones, has "stepped aside" until they are completed.

However, many of the e-mails that are being held up as "smoking guns" have been misrepresented by global-warming skeptics eager to find evidence of a conspiracy. And even if they showed what the critics claim, there remains ample evidence that the earth is getting warmer. Even as the affair was unfolding, the World Meteorological Organization announced on Dec. 8 that the 2000-2009 decade would likely be the warmest on record, and that 2009 might be the fifth warmest year ever recorded. (The hottest year on record was 1998.) This conclusion is based not only on the CRU data that critics are now questioning, but also incorporates data from the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).

All three organizations synthesized data from many sources. Some critics claim that the e-mails invalidate the conclusions of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the world scientific body that reaffirmed in a 2007 report that the earth is warming, sea levels are rising and that human activity is "very likely" the cause of "most of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century." But the IPCC’s 2007 report, its most recent synthesis of scientific findings from around the globe, incorporates data from three working groups, each of which made use of data from a huge number of sources — of which CRU was only one. The synthesis report notes key disagreements and uncertainties but makes the "robust" conclusion that "warming of the climate system is unequivocal." (A robust finding is defined as "one that holds under a variety of approaches, methods, models and assumptions, and is expected to be relatively unaffected by uncertainties.") The IPCC has released a statement playing down the notion that CRU scientists skewed the world body’s report or kept it from considering the views of skeptical scientists:

Mixed Messages

The 1,000-plus e-mails sometimes illustrate the hairier side of scientific research. Criticisms of climate change are sometimes dismissed as "fraud" or "pure crap," as in this 2005 e-mail from CRU Director Phil Jones. Other messages, like a 2007 e-mail from Michael Mann of Penn State University, show indignation at being the target of skeptics’ ire. Some of the e-mails are in bad form; for instance, climate scientist Benjamin Santer of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory makes a crack about "beat[ing] the crap out of" opponent Pat Michaels.

Claims that the e-mails are evidence of fraud or deceit, however, misrepresent what they actually say. A prime example is a 1999 e-mail from Jones, who wrote: "I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i.e., from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline." Skeptics claim the words "trick" and "decline" show Jones is using sneaky manipulations to mask a decline in global temperatures. But that’s not the case. Actual temperatures, as measured by scientific instruments such as thermometers, were rising at the time of the writing of this decade-old e-mail, and (as we’ve noted) have continued to rise since then. Jones was referring to the decline in temperatures implied by measurements of the width and density of tree rings. In recent decades, these measures indicate a dip, while more accurate instrument-measured temperatures continue to rise.

Scientists at CRU use tree-ring data and other "proxy" measurements to estimate temperatures from times before instrumental temperature data began to be collected. However, since about 1960, tree-ring data have diverged from actual measured temperatures. Far from covering it up, CRU scientists and others have published reports of this divergence many times. The "trick" that Jones was writing about in his 1999 e-mail was simply adding the actual, measured instrumental data into a graph of historic temperatures. Jones says it’s a “trick” in the colloquial sense of an adroit feat — "a clever thing to do," as he put it — not a deception. What’s hidden is the fact that tree-ring data in recent decades doesn’t track with thermometer measurements. East Anglia Research Professor Andrew Watson explained in an article in The Times of London:

Other quotes that skeptics say are evidence of "data manipulation" actually refer to how numbers are presented, not to falsifying those numbers. For instance, in one e-mail climate scientist Tom Crowley writes: "I have been fiddling with the best way to illustrate the stable nature of the medieval warm period." Crowley is referring to the best way to translate the data into a graphic format. We’re the first to admit that charts and graphs can give a false or misleading impression of what data actually show. In the past, for instance, we’ve criticized a pie chart used by some liberals to make military spending look like a much larger slice of the federal budget than it really is. In fact, it’s been a major contention of climate change skeptics that a so-called "hockey stick" chart, so named because it shows a steep climb in temperatures in the last few decades, exaggerates the true extent of warming. That claim is contradicted by climate scientists, including the creator of one of the most contended "hockey stick" charts, and we make no judgment about that dispute here. We simply note that "fiddling" with the way data are displayed — even in a way that some may see as misleading — is not the same thing as falsifying the numbers. Much has also been made of the scientists’ discussion of Freedom of Information Act requests for their raw data. In fact, the vast majority of CRU’s data is already freely available. According to the University of East Anglia, a small amount of the data is restricted by non-publication agreements. Discussion of British FOIA requests in the stolen e-mails show scientists bristling at demands that they supply records of their own correspondence, computer code and data to people whose motives they question. In one e-mail about a request for data and correspondence, Santer writes critically of Steven McIntyre, a Canadian science blogger who runs the Climateaudit.org Web site:


Continued

http://factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/
 
Last edited:
Regression correlation between people who supported the Iraq Fiasco/believe rightwing blogs/read Drudge….

....and people who fell for “Climate Gate”……..

correlation, r-squared = 0.9

 
Last edited:
FactCheck.org repeated the exact talking points as put out by the busted scientists. The fact of the matter is factcheck.org offered no evidence that they themselves sought out to verify the talking points. The fact that over a 13 year span evidence of climate patterns were supressed makes their claim dubious at best. Supressing facts so that your thesis holds water is evidence enough to route your theory. In conclusion factcheck.org acted as nothing more than a mouth piece for the very people who we now know manipulated facts.
 
FactCheck.org repeated the exact talking points as put out by the busted scientists. The fact of the matter is factcheck.org offered no evidence that they themselves sought out to verify the talking points. The fact that over a 13 year span evidence of climate patterns were supressed makes their claim dubious at best. Supressing facts so that your thesis holds water is evidence enough to route your theory. In conclusion factcheck.org acted as nothing more than a mouth piece for the very people who we now know manipulated facts.



HaHa!

Sorry, I'm coming down on the side of FactCheck.org, the National Academy of Sciences, and every reputable scientific organization on the planet with expertise in climate science -- instead of coming down on the side of Dixie, TuTu, PiMP, and rightwing blogs.
 
HaHa!

Sorry, I'm coming down on the side of FactCheck.org, the National Academy of Sciences, and every reputable scientific organization on the planet with expertise in climate science -- instead of coming down on the side of Dixie, TuTu, PiMP, and rightwing blogs.

That's the most inane statement. There exists a whole host of scientists that make honest arguments against man's co2 output as being the cause of any kind of significant climate change. They offer scientific proofs in doing so. The very fact that emails leaked made it clear that reputable journals were going to avoid publishing any contrary theories or evidence makes those involved quacks...no matter their degree.

Your name calling aside, factcheck.org did nothing more than print the talking points of the scienrtists in question...and that ain't checking facts by any standard.
 
That's the most inane statement. There exists a whole host of scientists that make honest arguments against man's co2 output as being the cause of any kind of significant climate change. They offer scientific proofs in doing so. The very fact that emails leaked made it clear that reputable journals were going to avoid publishing any contrary theories or evidence makes those involved quacks...no matter their degree.

Your name calling aside, factcheck.org did nothing more than print the talking points of the scienrtists in question...and that ain't checking facts by any standard.

I should have known that Pistol Peet's claim 5 pages back that he was only going to comment once was a bald-faced lie. De ja vu with Taxcuts4therich,
 
That's the most inane statement. There exists a whole host of scientists that make honest arguments against man's co2 output as being the cause of any kind of significant climate change. They offer scientific proofs in doing so. The very fact that emails leaked made it clear that reputable journals were going to avoid publishing any contrary theories or evidence makes those involved quacks...no matter their degree.

Your name calling aside, factcheck.org did nothing more than print the talking points of the scienrtists in question...and that ain't checking facts by any standard.

What you call "talking points of the scientrtists[sic] in question" happen to be facts.
 
What you call "talking points of the scientrtists[sic] in question" happen to be facts.

No. They aren't facts.

This is covered in the emails.

The data DOES NOT support AGW theories, and the scientists in question are perplexed about it. Is clear they actively tried to shut out the truth in their own data, and the work of other scientists.
 
No surprise here. Non-partisan and highly respected and credible FACTCHECK.org debunks the claims of the flat-earth climate denialists.

Really, is anyone surprised? The same idiots who were easily fooled into the Iraq Fiasco, are the same idiots that immediately fell for the “Climate Gate” baloney as promoted by Rightwing blogs.

Anyone who isn’t a scientific illiterate, or a total partisan hack knows this climate gate stuff belongs in the Conspiracy Theory section of the Board.





Continued

http://factcheck.org/2009/12/climategate/


Now you KNOW that the neocon parrots will go into full blown denial mode....calling EVERYONE who has the facts that prove they were suckers of climategate as "liberal propagandists".:palm:
 
I should have known that Pistol Peet's claim 5 pages back that he was only going to comment once was a bald-faced lie. De ja vu with Taxcuts4therich,

Or that he wanted science to be the guide for this discussion. Of course he ignores all science that is contrary to the debunked science he still desperately wishes to buy into.
 
I will plant my ass whereever I like and in whatever thread I like and if you don't like it, too fucking bad. When you start posting the way others want you to post, then I will listen to the bullshit you've spewed. Until then STFU and STFD.

No science involved. I couldn't care less how long it's been since you've been here, or how long you were here before you left.

I hope this spells it out for you, k hon? :readit:

In a thread about science your opinions really mean shit just like everyone else. And I don't care where you plant your ass. Bitching about it is just pathetic when there are plenty of other threads to go in and have discussions with. :gives:
 
Or that he wanted science to be the guide for this discussion. Of course he ignores all science that is contrary to the debunked science he still desperately wishes to buy into.

My idea is anyone who is in a thread about science and doesn't use science in the discussion should just be ignored. Other people on both sides are interested in science and we can have a really good discussion about it.
 
My idea is anyone who is in a thread about science and doesn't use science in the discussion should just be ignored. Other people on both sides are interested in science and we can have a really good discussion about it.

and my theory is, if anyone can't answer one simple question, it doesn't matter how much science they quote....

what will the average temperatures be over the next ten years.....warmer or cooler?........
 
Back
Top