A Genuine Obama Scandal?

charver

charver

You lookin' at my pint?
The government demanding the phone records of millions of Americans, you say?




Verizon order: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice on a massive scale under President Obama.

The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual. Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target who is suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets.

The Guardian approached the National Security Agency, the White House and the Department of Justice for comment in advance of publication on Wednesday. All declined. The agencies were also offered the opportunity to raise specific security concerns regarding the publication of the court order.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order

Full court ruling here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order




This is the sort of thing i'd expect to happen over here, in the home of secretive government (although maybe our government is just better at hushing things up).
 
charver said:
The government demanding the phone records of millions of Americans, you say?




Verizon order: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

The National Security Agency is currently collecting the telephone records of millions of US customers of Verizon, one of America's largest telecoms providers, under a top secret court order issued in April.

The order, a copy of which has been obtained by the Guardian, requires Verizon on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the US and between the US and other countries.

The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of US citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk – regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing.

The secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (Fisa) granted the order to the FBI on April 25, giving the government unlimited authority to obtain the data for a specified three-month period ending on July 19.

Under the terms of the blanket order, the numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as is location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered.

The disclosure is likely to reignite longstanding debates in the US over the proper extent of the government's domestic spying powers.

Under the Bush administration, officials in security agencies had disclosed to reporters the large-scale collection of call records data by the NSA, but this is the first time significant and top-secret documents have revealed the continuation of the practice on a massive scale under President Obama.

The unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is extremely unusual. Fisa court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target who is suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets.

The Guardian approached the National Security Agency, the White House and the Department of Justice for comment in advance of publication on Wednesday. All declined. The agencies were also offered the opportunity to raise specific security concerns regarding the publication of the court order.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order

Full court ruling here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order




This is the sort of thing i'd expect to happen over here, in the home of secretive government (although maybe our government is just better at hushing things up).
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we can only hope that the amount of data overwhelms their system, however, with computers becoming faster and more capable even this is a forlorn hope.

my question is why this wholesale sweep of data was needed and what the government plans on doing with the information. does the freedom of information act cover any of these questions? or is the nsa free to act as as judge determines...with a rubber stamp
 
Did not Obama just come out in a speech and say the war on terror is over? If it is over, why is he still collecting data? Or is he just creating an enemies list on those that do not drink the Kool-Aid.
 
um No he didnt say the war on terror was over.

This is obviously a data mine to look for some pattern that involves verrizon usage.


Its such a large data request it (like DQ suggests) is likely needed to find a certain pattern that they could then refine down to whom is in the pattern 0nce the pattern is determined.


No listening to what the people are saying and HUGE data size tells the story.


Once you see who it is that is calling a certain location ( or whatever is the tip of the iceberg) then you look at the parts that tells you who and how long.
 
the right in this country did the same type of screaming about Clinton trying to get OBL before 911.


wag the dog and government overreach and the like.

then we got hit becuase Bush took his eye off the ball and what did the right do?

started chanting "if you aint with us your agin' us".
 
evince said:
um No he didnt say the war on terror was over.

This is obviously a data mine to look for some pattern that involves verrizon usage.


Its such a large data request it (like DQ suggests) is likely needed to find a certain pattern that they could then refine down to whom is in the pattern 0nce the pattern is determined.


No listening to what the people are saying and HUGE data size tells the story.


Once you see who it is that is calling a certain location ( or whatever is the tip of the iceberg) then you look at the parts that tells you who and how long.
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Yes he did say it was over.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331112/GOP-bashes-Obama-declaring-war-terror-over.html


When Bush did it, you liberals went ballistic, now that Obama is doing the same thing and on a larger scale, you have no problem with it.
 
evince said:
the right in this country did the same type of screaming about Clinton trying to get OBL before 911.

evidence? or just another one of your baseless claims?


wag the dog and government overreach and the like.

then we got hit becuase Bush took his eye off the ball and what did the right do?

started chanting "if you aint with us your agin' us".
Click to expand...

Maybe y'all should wait until Obama finds out about this from the news. We all know he didn't know about it. Or it was low level, roque agents. Or....................
 
evince said:
the right in this country did the same type of screaming about Clinton trying to get OBL before 911.


wag the dog and government overreach and the like.

then we got hit becuase Bush took his eye off the ball and what did the right do?

started chanting "if you aint with us your agin' us".
Click to expand...

How much do you get paid to post this disinformation, Clinton trying to get OBL? ha, Still blaming Bush for Clinton's failures to have a foreign policy.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think a President exercising powers that Congress gave him and that a Court authorized is much of a scandal in the true sense of the word. Also, I don't think it's all that shocking that a President who, as Senator, voted to retroactively immunize illegal wiretapping would make borad use of surveillance powers.

Which is not to say that there aren't real and concerning issues here. Just that (1) they've been issues since roughly October 26, 2001 and (2) lots of people are seemingly OK with it.
 
This isn't an Obama scandal. It's not a Bush scandal.

It's an appalling thing that our govt is doing, but as Dungheap says, they're just doing what congress lets them do and the people in general aren't objecting. (there is protest, but doesn't seem to be a majority)

Let's face it - most people will give up freedom for security; they'll say "I'm not doing anything wrong, so I don't care if the govt tracks my phone records as long as they get the bad guys".

I'm very much a privacy rights person, so this stuff appalls me, but I think even if McCain was in office, or Romney was in office, it would still be happening.
 
tekkychick said:
This isn't an Obama scandal. It's not a Bush scandal.

It's an appalling thing that our govt is doing, but as Dungheap says, they're just doing what congress lets them do and the people in general aren't objecting. (there is protest, but doesn't seem to be a majority)

Let's face it - most people will give up freedom for security; they'll say "I'm not doing anything wrong, so I don't care if the govt tracks my phone records as long as they get the bad guys".

I'm very much a privacy rights person, so this stuff appalls me, but I think even if McCain was in office, or Romney was in office, it would still be happening.
Click to expand...

in the world of corporate and governmental data mining privacy is disappearing fast. the best a person can do is go to a cash economy and live as far off of the grid as possible.

go with all electric power (solar), use snail mail instead of email, etc. or live a life in a goldfish bowl
 
Not just Verizon -

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/06/06/2118301/prism-internet-surveillance-nsa/

Hot off the heals of the revelation that Verizon has been supplying the National Security Agency (NSA) with phone records for all domestic calls, the Washington Post reveals the NSA and FBI are datamining the servers of nine technology companies, “extracting audio, video, photographs, e-mails, documents and connection logs that enable analysts to track a person’s movements and contacts over time.”

Companies participating in the program are obliged to accept “a directive” from the the attorney general and the director of national intelligence to open their servers to the FBI’s Data Intercept Technology Unit. In exchange, the companies receive immunity from lawsuits.

The broad, top secret program, code-named PRISM, was established in 2007 with Microsoft as its first partner but now counts Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube, and Apple among its membership. Twitter is notably absent from the list.
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For sake of completeness, further in the article:
Apple and Facebook have both denied participation in the program, with Apple saying they’ve “never heard” of it, and Facebook flatly denying they provide “any government organization with direct access” to their servers. Google has been slightly less clear, but told Washington Post they lack a back door for the government to obtain access to private user data and care “deeply” about the privacy of users.
Click to expand...
 
tekkychick said:
This isn't an Obama scandal. It's not a Bush scandal.

It's an appalling thing that our govt is doing, but as Dungheap says, they're just doing what congress lets them do and the people in general aren't objecting. (there is protest, but doesn't seem to be a majority)

Let's face it - most people will give up freedom for security; they'll say "I'm not doing anything wrong, so I don't care if the govt tracks my phone records as long as they get the bad guys".

I'm very much a privacy rights person, so this stuff appalls me, but I think even if McCain was in office, or Romney was in office, it would still be happening.
Click to expand...
those very same people are also very disinterested because it doesn't affect them directly. It leads to calls of extremism and labeling of domestic terrorists for people to protest things that others feel keep them safe.
 
But we shouldn't resist efforts to collect our guns, because the Government is so trustworthy, right?
 
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