5 Reasons America Is Not -- And Has Never Been -- a Christian Nation

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signalmankenneth

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http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/155985

The United States of America is Blessed by God; Americans are Chosen by God


God Bless America?!!


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Um. Ya, america is a christian nation, definitely, for a long time. It's in our words, our culture and our actions. It's no excuse to force Christianity on people because America is also a constitutional nation, but the foundations are definitely Christianity. "God bless america" is our slogan not, "May we enter into a positive time stream in which America is slightly more successful than it would be in other time streams."
 
Disillusioned said:
Um. Ya, america is a christian nation, definitely, for a long time. It's in our words, our culture and our actions. It's no excuse to force Christianity on people because America is also a constitutional nation, but the foundations are definitely Christianity. "God bless america" is our slogan not, "May we enter into a positive time stream in which America is slightly more successful than it would be in other time streams."
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Culturally we are a Christian nation. That's inarguable. Our government on the other hand is secular in nature and is not based on Christianity. It was intended specifically to be that way, by our founding fathers, so that neither the Church or State would have a corrupting influence upon the other. In our modern age with large problems we cannot afford governance based upon relgious dogma Any religious dogma Government functions and public policies must be based upon fact and rational thinking and what is in the best interest of the people at large. That is the nature of our government.
 
Derp Derp said:
Culturally we are a Christian nation. That's inarguable. Our government on the other hand is secular in nature and is not based on Christianity. It was intended specifically to be that way, by our founding fathers, so that neither the Church or State would have a corrupting influence upon the other. In our modern age with large problems we cannot afford governance based upon relgious dogma Any religious dogma Government functions and public policies must be based upon fact and rational thinking and what is in the best interest of the people at large. That is the nature of our government.
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The intention was that the secular church (IE the pope) would have no authority. The laws and morals of the nations are most definitely Christian based. You can't have a government separate from Christianity in the west, because Christianity is such a part of the culture and people make up a government ergo, it gets in. It would be nice if policy was based on rational thought but this is most definitely not the case as seen in the case of abortion, gay marriage, taxes(socialism isn't rational), healthcare(keeping old people alive so they can live but not work isn't rational) oh, most things. We do them because we're culturally set up to. Think about all teh trouble politicians get into with adultery. Would a rational government care about that sort of thing?

Oh and the best interest of the people? That is funny how rarely the government manages it.

We'd like to think we're separate from religion, while what we actually are is mostly separate from the churches.
 
Poor DimwitmanKenneth......

He found an article on the wed that agrees with his erronious perception of the US and he wants us all to accept it without question....

Most, if not all of those responsible for the founding of the country were believers in a Supreme God......and came from a very Christian Europe.....
To imagine they, to a man, were not influenced by that Christian Europe is just denying fact......
Every law enacted and every principle espoused in our nations documents scream of Christian and Judao values and Biblical teachings....without ever
demanding that the citizens show any allegience to any religion or claiming that one must be a Christian to enjoy the freedoms of the country....
 
Disillusioned said:
The intention was that the secular church (IE the pope) would have no authority. The laws and morals of the nations are most definitely Christian based. You can't have a government separate from Christianity in the west, because Christianity is such a part of the culture and people make up a government ergo, it gets in. It would be nice if policy was based on rational thought but this is most definitely not the case as seen in the case of abortion, gay marriage, taxes(socialism isn't rational), healthcare(keeping old people alive so they can live but not work isn't rational) oh, most things. We do them because we're culturally set up to. Think about all teh trouble politicians get into with adultery. Would a rational government care about that sort of thing?

Oh and the best interest of the people? That is funny how rarely the government manages it.

We'd like to think we're separate from religion, while what we actually are is mostly separate from the churches.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but you're just factually wrong. At least in regards to the laws. The historical record is quite clear about this. Our laws take their precedence from British and Roman common law. Christianit had little to do with it other than that it reflects our cultural heritage. That's a valid point. So the fact is, our government is a secular governemnt and it is not based upon any specific relgious dogma.
 
Derp Derp said:
I'm sorry but you're just factually wrong. At least in regards to the laws. The historical record is quite clear about this. Our laws take their precedence from British and Roman common law. Christianit had little to do with it other than that it reflects our cultural heritage. That's a valid point. So the fact is, our government is a secular governemnt and it is not based upon any specific relgious dogma.
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You do know where British common law came from right? AS for the roman law that's pretty much the "thou shalty not rebel or attack anybody we put in charge".


And our government is totally based around religious theory. I'll use a big one. Democracy, that all men are created equal and that they are all entitled to a say, based around the "god loves all of you" bit. Patently not true a retard's(or even an average) views are of far less value than a genius's, we can quantify intelligence. Rationally shouldn't that change the value of a vote? How about age? Shouldn't an adult, with more experience and wisdom count for more in the way of a view than a kid? What about education level? University students vs high school dropouts?

And I'm actually interested in your answer for that one since I wandered a bit astray of the original argument.
 
bravo said:
Poor DimwitmanKenneth......

He found an article on the wed that agrees with his erronious perception of the US and he wants us all to accept it without question....

Most, if not all of those responsible for the founding of the country were believers in a Supreme God......and came from a very Christian Europe.....
To imagine they, to a man, were not influenced by that Christian Europe is just denying fact......
Every law enacted and every principle espoused in our nations documents scream of Christian and Judao values and Biblical teachings....without ever
demanding that the citizens show any allegience to any religion or claiming that one must be a Christian to enjoy the freedoms of the country....
Click to expand...

I feel so dirty having to agree with bravo
 
Disillusioned said:
The intention was that the secular church (IE the pope) would have no authority. The laws and morals of the nations are most definitely Christian based. You can't have a government separate from Christianity in the west, because Christianity is such a part of the culture and people make up a government ergo, it gets in. It would be nice if policy was based on rational thought but this is most definitely not the case as seen in the case of abortion, gay marriage, taxes(socialism isn't rational), healthcare(keeping old people alive so they can live but not work isn't rational) oh, most things. We do them because we're culturally set up to. Think about all teh trouble politicians get into with adultery. Would a rational government care about that sort of thing?

Oh and the best interest of the people? That is funny how rarely the government manages it.

We'd like to think we're separate from religion, while what we actually are is mostly separate from the churches.
Click to expand...

You became a nation at a time before widespread knowledge and education, before modern scientific progress. Your nation was made with the words, morals and culture available to it at the time. So there was little or no choice as to whether your constitution should be based upon Christian values and teachings. To give a sort of choice you developed, to a greater degree than other western nations, deep divides between the various churches within christendom partly as a result of the original reason for settlement.
So you have a christian culture BY DEFAULT, not by free and open choice. Were you to start a new nation today what predominant culture would be evident? and how much actual choice would be available to you?
Actually America professes christian morals, waves its arms in the air on Sundays with its phoney hallelujahs and praise bes as witness to christian morals and then kills more of its own people that any other industrialised modern nation and invades and kills more non americans than any other nation and has probably the most corrupting influence upon the world of any people past or present.
So if you think you are christian then its a pretty shitty christianity that you live by.
The UK would, I think, develop a new culture based upon atheism.
 
Disillusioned said:
Um. Ya, america is a christian nation, definitely, for a long time. It's in our words, our culture and our actions. It's no excuse to force Christianity on people because America is also a constitutional nation, but the foundations are definitely Christianity. "God bless america" is our slogan not, "May we enter into a positive time stream in which America is slightly more successful than it would be in other time streams."
Click to expand...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm

I know some don't like the site, but I feel it gives a lot of good information.
 
Both sides quote mine to support their position, whether that be that the US was founded as Christian nation, or a secular one. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. It goes without saying that Christianity was very influential in the founding of our country (besides Kenneth, does anyone here deny this?), but did the founders intend that we be some sort of theocracy, with the Bible enshrined into law? Hardly. It is obvious to me that the founders intended a strict separation of ecclesiastical and political affairs. This is the best possible arrangement for both sides.
 
Derp Derp said:
I'm sorry but you're just factually wrong. At least in regards to the laws. The historical record is quite clear about this. Our laws take their precedence from British and Roman common law. Christianit had little to do with it other than that it reflects our cultural heritage. That's a valid point. So the fact is, our government is a secular governemnt and it is not based upon any specific relgious dogma.
Click to expand...

The great minds of the time were moving away from religion, many were irreligious. Our secular government was based on the ideas advanced by these men.
 
America is not nor ever has been a Christian nation. We might possibly have more Christians in America than there are in any other nation but no, we're not a "Christian nation." Of course this is just my opinion.
 
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