Personal liberties versus socialism in America's future?

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Its the ultimate form of freedom there is.Lack of responsibility.

Even if you're kept in a cage and someone brings you your food and takes your shit away in a bucket?

[wanderingbear]

Even if you're kept in a cage and someone brings you your food and takes your shit away in a bucket?

Freedom is relative to the individuals perceptions wants and desires for some that very well maybe fredom to them.It is to our pets.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

Freedom is relative to the individuals perceptions wants and desires for some that very well maybe fredom to them.It is to our pets.

I'm asking you.

[Crashk]

that's such a blanket statement to say that "conservative ideology failed" what aspect of it? On what issue? It's a mental copout and analytically bereft of meaning.

The unrestricted, unmonitored, trickle down, Market as God and Government has failed again the same way it failed in 1929. Your policies toward American labor and production have driven the middle class into the working poor. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Not as much as I'd like but its a step in the right direction.

When you say freedom what you mean is 'Bush's Base' and corporate freedom to continue to use this country as a cashcow. You bitch about taxes because you no longer believe in society, but don't touch grandma's medicare. Your political party is obstructionist on behalf of corporate interests(dont scream about the dems their guilty too). And if the govt. hadn't stepped in over the past few years, 30 years of conservative rule would have caused a collapse bigger than the one in 29.

[Blackwater Lunchbreak]

The unrestricted, unmonitored, trickle down, Market as God and Government has failed again the same way it failed in 1929. Your policies toward American labor and production have driven the middle class into the working poor. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Not as much as I'd like but its a step in the right direction.

When you say freedom what you mean is 'Bush's Base' and corporate freedom to continue to use this country as a cashcow. You bitch about taxes because you no longer believe in society, but don't touch grandma's medicare. Your political party is obstructionist on behalf of corporate interests(dont scream about the dems their guilty too). And if the govt. hadn't stepped in over the past few years, 30 years of conservative rule would have caused a collapse bigger than the one in 29.

I agree that coporations dehumanize people often. But this crash was also due to state guarantees. The government backing of fannie mae was abused by wallstreet assholes. Government as monolithic lord and savior is also part of the creation of this mess, and that's lefty.

Saying "conservative policies caused it" is simplistic, bordering on ignorant.

[Minister of Truth]

Its the ultimate form of freedom there is.Lack of responsibility.

The very essence of neoliberalism. Well done.

Freedom is relative to the individuals perceptions wants and desires for some that very well maybe fredom to them.It is to our pets.

FYI, pets are not free. Not in any way, shape, or form.

[DamnYankee]

Its the ultimate form of freedom there is.Lack of responsibility.

You didn't answer my question. Is that what liberals want? Freedom from responsibility?

[wanderingbear]

You didn't answer my question. Is that what liberals want? Freedom from responsibility?

In the end who doesn't want freedom from responsibility? But that's not always what we get.Because in the end some one has to be responcible.

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The exercise of freedom is the willing assumption of responsibility, it is directly opposite to give such responsibility to another to exercise for you, such as government.

It is my opinion, and that of the founders, that when you cede liberty to the government there is almost always a price that is more than the price that you would pay had you taken the responsibility on yourself.

No it wasn't. It's blatantly and obviously untrue.

[DamnYankee]

In the end who doesn't want freedom from responsibility? But that's not always what we get.Because in the end some one has to be responcible.

You still didn't answer my question. Is that what liberals want? Freedom from responsibility?

[wanderingbear]

You still didn't answer my question. Is that what liberals want? Freedom from responsibility?

As much as anyone does.

[DamnYankee]

As much as anyone does.

No not anyone. As a conservative, I understand that with freedom comes responsibility. For example, if you want to drive a car, you must obey the traffic laws, maintain it, pay for gas and insurance, etc. If you don't accept all of these responsibilities than you lose the freedom that comes with car ownership.

Here we have the basic difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives understand that with freedom comes responsibility, while liberals want freedom from responsibility.

I worked my ass off in college, made careful decisions about my lifestyle, marriage, career and location, live within my means, pay my bills on time, all the while accepting the responsibilities of my career, while putting that second to my responsibilities as a husband and father. As a result I have a beautiful wife and family, two beautiful homes, an awesome credit rating, nice cars, and I ski every weened during the winter.

Liberals see how I live and see unequal outcomes. They think that part of my income should pay for folks who had the same opportunities that I did but didn't take personal responsibility.

[The Dude]

Socialism is the code word for " I'm a complete fucking failure so I need to blame Obama"



THE DUDE ABIDES

[Jarod]

1) Obama is not a socialist, if you continue to say so you are ignorant.
2) In some ways socialism leads to more freedom because those who would have been born into poverty have more oppertunity to be free from economic tyrany!
3) Less freedom for the privledged class and more freedom for the underclass.

[wanderingbear]

No not anyone. As a conservative, I understand that with freedom comes responsibility. For example, if you want to drive a car, you must obey the traffic laws, maintain it, pay for gas and insurance, etc. If you don't accept all of these responsibilities than you lose the freedom that comes with car ownership.

Here we have the basic difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives understand that with freedom comes responsibility, while liberals want freedom from responsibility.

I worked my ass off in college, made careful decisions about my lifestyle, marriage, career and location, live within my means, pay my bills on time, all the while accepting the responsibilities of my career, while putting that second to my responsibilities as a husband and father. As a result I have a beautiful wife and family, two beautiful homes, an awesome credit rating, nice cars, and I ski every weened during the winter.

Liberals see how I live and see unequal outcomes. They think that part of my income should pay for folks who had the same opportunities that I did but didn't take personal responsibility.

You believe that competition is a good thing. I dont. I beleave that the greedy competion over material wealth is a bad thing. Capitalism is a game of winners and loosers. No better then gambling with a persons life. The thing is that the winners are a circle of the few. Not everyone gets to be a winner. Matter of fact most people end up losing this game for one or more of many reasons. It is not fair that some people have while others dont. Sence capitolism is a game of life and death people do what they have to do what they need to to survive. Even if that survival means committing a crime.
If you could remove the life and death aspects of capitalism it would be just another game of monopoly. But sence you cant socialism is a much more human system.