the worst of liberalism

[Bfgrn]

It's a printed report. But it's nice to see you can keep up the lack of civility.

OK, so it has no validity here...those are the breaks.

Here are some studies that refute some of the claims here and show the ties between economics and crime.

States With Higher Levels Of Gun Ownership Have Higher Homicide Rates

ScienceDaily (Jan. 14, 2007) — Firearms are used to kill two out of every three homicide victims in America.. In the first nationally representative study to examine the relationship between survey measures of household firearm ownership and state level rates of homicide, researchers at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center found that homicide rates among children, and among women and men of all ages, are higher in states where more households have guns. The study appears in the February 2007 issue of Social Science and Medicine.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0111181527.htm

Firearm Suicide And Homicide Rates Associated With Level Of Background Check

ScienceDaily (June 3, 2008) — States that perform local-level background checks for firearms purchases are more effective in reducing firearm suicide and homicide rates than states that rely only on a federal-level background check, according to a new study by researchers at the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0603155227.htm

A Tale Of Two Capitalisms: Research Into Homicide Rates And The Link To Political Economies

ScienceDaily (Sep. 4, 2009) — Homicide rates are closely linked to the form of political economy that runs a nation, according to research from Northumbria University.

Senior Lecturers, Dr Steve Hall and Dr Craig McLean, claim in the latest international journal Theoretical Criminology that homicide rates are significantly higher in nations in neo-liberal politics where free market forces are allowed free rein, such as the USA, but are significantly lower in nations governed by social-democratic policies which still characterise most Western European nations.

Historically, says Hall, homicide rates are at their lowest when social-democratic policies govern nations. The US homicide rate was halved in the decades following the Depression, when the social democratic policies of the New Deal replaced ailing free-market policies. The nation experienced an initial rise from the mid-60s, when the nation’s brief social democratic project began to wind down, followed by sharp increases during the ‘crime explosion’ of the mid-80s and early 90s which followed Reagan’s abrupt introduction of free-market policies. Rates were eventually brought down in the late 90s, but only by imprisoning large numbers of violent offenders.

Similarly, in Britain, the homicide rate has almost tripled since its historical low point in 1956. These figures are even worse in areas blighted by job losses in the 1980s which have stayed in permanent recession. Hall claims that some of these areas have become breeding grounds for alternative forms of criminal ‘employment’– prostitution, loan-sharking, drug-dealing and distributing stolen goods, most of which appears on neither the Police nor British Crime Survey statistics. In some of the former industrial areas and inner cities devastated under Mrs Thatcher’s reign, homicide rates are six times higher than the national average. This contrasts sharply with Western European cities where the homicide rate is much closer to their national averages.

In the current recession, property crime is already on the increase and he predicts there will be a rise in career criminality, particularly as the UK has the highest number of young people not in work, education or training in Europe.

Hall lays most of the responsibility for higher crime rates at the door of the neo-liberals who claim competitive individualism and greed can be stimulated and harnessed to create wealth. That might be true, he argues, but it also corrodes our ability to empathise with others.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0904103525.htm

[WinterBorn]

Maybe there is a reason...

Title: Brady Background Checks: 15 Years of Saving Lives

Publication Date: November 30, 2008

What does it say?

Since Brady background checks went into effect in February 1994, every day, more than 300 attempts by dangerous people to purchase a gun have been blocked. During the same time period, gun crimes declined sharply.

Yes, crime declined during that time. At roughly the same rate as the years before.

[/MSG/]

I never disagreed that economics has far more to do with crime than guns. I simply argued against the idea that more guns=more crime. It doesn't. As to the study that more involved background checks lead to less violent states, I'm afraid the FBI doesn't agree.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nic...rations-report
Go to page 9 (in Adobe reader) or 4 (the actual page number). States in red, such as California, New Jersey, and Nevada all perform at least state level checks in addition to federal checks and they are currently regarded as some of the most dangerous states in the nations.
Now I don't dislike the NICS system. It's a good foundation. It does need an update to be able to better share information however and reforming the system would be great. It would be even better if private sellers of firearms were legally allowed to use the system, but sadly the Brady Act strictly forbids it.

This is getting a long way of from our original topic of discussion, that being 'assault' weapons. Tell me again why they should be banned? I'm most curious, since you've been unable to yet.

[/MSG/]

Maybe there is a reason...

Title: Brady Background Checks: 15 Years of Saving Lives

Publication Date: November 30, 2008

What does it say?

Since Brady background checks went into effect in February 1994, every day, more than 300 attempts by dangerous people to purchase a gun have been blocked. During the same time period, gun crimes declined sharply.

Being denied during an NICS check does not mean the attempted purchaser is dangerous. It often occurs to people with no criminal record, and is usually do to a error on the NICS side. And Compared to the number of checks performed each year, the number of holds (where you are temporarily prohibited from completing your purchase until a more thorough check is performed, often due to similarities in names between two people) and denials represent less than %1 of total NICS checks.

[/MSG/]

Historically, says Hall, homicide rates are at their lowest when social-democratic policies govern nations. The US homicide rate was halved in the decades following the Depression, when the social democratic policies of the New Deal replaced ailing free-market policies. The nation experienced an initial rise from the mid-60s, when the nation’s brief social democratic project began to wind down, followed by sharp increases during the ‘crime explosion’ of the mid-80s and early 90s which followed Reagan’s abrupt introduction of free-market policies. Rates were eventually brought down in the late 90s, but only by imprisoning large numbers of violent offenders.

Has the author never heard of prohibition? The increase of violent crime, almost entirely by criminals on criminals engaged in bootlegging during the time period was entirely related to prohibition. And after the ban on booze was lifted, it just so happened that crime rates fell significantly. And then in the 60's/70's you see the formation of the War of Drugs, and magically crimes involving drugs, or the distribution of drugs, seems to be much more prominent.

[SmarterthanYou]

NICS checks are precisely why I buy from private persons and not dealers.

[SmarterthanYou]

http://www.freep.com/article/2013052...stated-Appeals

The Michigan Court of Appeals has ordered charges reinstated against a Detroit woman accused of firing at police trying to remove her teenage daughter from her care in 2011.

The ruling overturns decisions by judges in 36th District Court and Wayne County Circuit Court. The case involves Maryanne Godboldo, who had been charged with discharge of a weapon, three counts of felonious assault, resisting and obstructing an officer and using a firearm in a felony.

“The Michigan Court of Appeals ruled that the district court erred when it suppressed the evidence in the case and reversed the decision of the lower court dismissing the case,” according to the Wayne County Prosecutor’s Office.

Pitts said he would meet with Godboldo to decide the next course of action — whether to fight the charges or appeal the opinion issued Tuesday to the Michigan Supreme Court.

The case stems from March 2011, when child welfare workers and police tried to remove Godboldo’s daughter because Godboldo would not give her psychiatric medicine. Godboldo said the medicine was hurting her daughter.

Goldboldo is accused of opening fire on police, who were not injured, when they came to her home, launching an eight-hour standoff. Godboldo’s daughter was taken away, but ordered returned in December 2011, a move that Pitts hailed at the time as a victory for parental rights.

The case also raised concerns because a court clerk had stamped a judge’s name on the removal order.

It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong, even when the wrongness is so blatant. the court of appeals judges should be tried for gross misconduct for failure to abide by their oaths.

[Robo]

Ignorant stereotyping is not an argument. Many liberals believe in God. The great liberal Thomas Jefferson avoided the word 'God' in the Declaration of Independence. He used the word 'creator' to include ALL who believe and ALL who do not.

Jefferson was a “classical Liberal” he wasn’t a fucking ”LEFTIST The difference is like night and day.

BTW, authoritarian personality markers are rampant in right wing Christians and almost non existent in liberals.

But sure as hell rampant in Leftist! Anti-Second Amendment, pro-IRS intimidation, pro-food police, anti-religious freedom, pro-socialist engineering, pro-bribery for the vote, pro-BIG intrusive government, pro-undeclared, unconstitutional wars, pro-Drug War, pro-American World Police Force, pro-taxation, pro-Wall Street cronyism, pro-BIG government regulations, pro-BIG government corporate subsidies, pro-regulating the amount of water in your toilet, anti-smoking and on and on and on. Leftist just like rightist are BIG intrusive government bastards!

[Topspin]

Jefferson was a racist piece of dogshit as were most founding fathers.