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Earl (01-12-2019)
"we'll just make what's needed"
Who would have created that computer and then internet that is allowing us to communicate now? A mate in one part of the globe would have said back in the day "let's create something that allows us all to communicate!" And someone would have said "I've seen the future and it is called a computer and here's how you build it..." and voila, a computer was born?
Earl (01-12-2019)
Earl (01-12-2019)
The greedy have made the means of prosperity for us all, so now it is time to kick them out and get on with sensible living instead of pretending we have to work twenty-four hours a day. Once we eliminate the thieves and their hatred, we have all the time in the world to develop humanity to its full extent, just as we choose. Now why not have a think and stop getting worked up about being old enough to have grandchildren, there's a good kid: thirty-year-olds can do that!
Perhaps they will be happy when the divorce is final.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
I would advise you to stop trying to define 'the liberal position,' and stop trying to hold individuals responsible for your straw man. It is unrealistic, and invented. I think you will gain a better understanding of the world if you assume that people have differing positions and they each individual is entitled to their own view. I believe you have mischaracterized Iolo's position. And I certainly do not subscribe to that.
I also never said we have unfettered capitalism. What we do have is too much unrestrained and improperly regulated capitalism. And it is hurting our nation.
Think about it.
What does capitalism do?
It allows those with access to great capital to have great power. Capitalism makes the rich very powerful. It also creates a huge problem. When very greedy people who are obsessed with fortune-building get access to great power they always use it for the same thing. They seek to accumulate as much wealth as possible. More more more. It's all they know. The overall effect hurts the economy because their efforts concentrate wealth and sequester wealth OUT of circulation. Our economy is built on the active trading of wealth for products and services. If most people don't have much wealth, they can't be buying things. When people slow down on buying things (due to a lack of available funds for doing so,) that means the economy slows down.
The result of improperly regulated capitalism is a that economic activity recedes. If it persists we call that a recession. If that goes on long enough, we call that a depression.
Government regulation is our only defense against having recessions and depressions. Things like Social Security, government assistance programs and the minimum wage all act to forestall recessions. If those things are a form of socialism then that is what we need to prevent our economy from melting down.
Without government regulation and socialism, capitalism would self-implode.
Capitalism is not doing very well right now in the big overall picture. I say this despite the soaring stock market, and strong economy, because I am looking at other indicators. The US birth rate is so low that without immigration, we are losing population. People feel so economically insecure that they don't feel comfortable having large families. Or they just don't have kids at all. The other major indicator is the federal debt. The wild rise of the super-rich comes at a time when government is being deprived of sufficient revenue to maintain a balanced budget. The powerful get rich. The government gets poor. The rich take from the country as they give to themselves.
If the economy is strong right now, that should be generating the maximum revenue compared to a time when the economy is weak. If we can't pay down the federal debt during a strong economy we will never be able to do it during a weak one. A weak economy generates less revenue than a strong one. We need more revenue. Cutting spending will only weaken the economy and reduce revenue. More cuts after that would make it worse, not better. We need to tax the rich more, and expand our government safety net. We have to redistribute wealth, or it will be too concentrated.
And we need to regulate capitalism even more strongly than we already are.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
You could categorize them like that. Or it could just as easily be said that they are the ones who extract wealth from society and government in order to concentrate it into vast personal fortunes, at the expense of everything else which others hold important.
They begrudgingly hire workers only because it is required for them to build their fortunes. As soon as they find machines which can replace workers they do so without hesitation. Which is why capitalism is doomed. Capitalism is so efficient at developing new technology (used mostly for the purpose of wealth concentration) that it is poised on the precipice of eliminating vast categories of workers, with no real vision for generating new jobs or careers. As capitalists eliminate labor costs, they also unwittingly eliminate consumerism, the engine of capitalism.
Capitalists are in the process of slowly destroying their own market.
That is why capitalism as we know it is doomed.
Did you think wealth extraction and concentration could just go on forever, wealth inequality becoming more and more extreme?
And that wouldn't cause any unwanted consequences?
We do live in interesting times.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Poli, you brought up in the post I responded to what you felt conservatives believe. It you don't want me to state what liberals believe in response don't do the same yourself. And my post and discussion with iolo had nothing to do with liberals and conservatives. Most U.S. liberals are still capitalists according to iolo's beliefs and he believes capitalists are evil.
Feel free to respond to him with where you agree or disagree with him. It could make for an interesting discussion.
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