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Thread: Why is the stars and bars flag considered a racist symbol?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle-Eye View Post
    Just like many here say the southerners committed treason. So what.
    Your cause needs to be just in order to win the approval of future generations standing in judgment. Since the south seceded—according to its secession documents—over the institution of slavery, the cause was not at all just. Everything that followed, such as attacking America and triggering an unnecessary war, likewise fails to be justifiable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterAssassin View Post
    That's irrelevant to anything that I've posted, simp.

    The point is that the 'media' didn't make it a racist symbol. It's always been one.
    No shit Sherlock
    Tie Your 'roo down Mate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Margot Frank View Post
    No shit Sherlock
    Ah, so you admit you're a moron.

    Thanks for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle-Eye View Post
    That is where you are mistaken. When people stomp, tear, burn the American flag they are not trying to intimidate or anger you. They are expressing their grievance with the government which is their right under the constitution. Yes it pisses some off but that in not the primary intent. So to compare the two is like comparing apples and oranges.
    I'm happily surprised that you see desecration of our flag as a rightful form of protest; most conservatives cannot see that -- even though the USSCt has ruled that it is protected speech.

    Of course a protest would be pointless if it did not cause comment, unrest, thought, and even outrage -- which is why flag-desecration is sometimes used by protesters to get attention and make a point. Do you think if the media didn't cover them, and the rest of us ignored them, they'd find some other way to spark comment, unrest, thought, and outrage?
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Margot Frank View Post
    Move to Germany and fly a Nazi flag using that argument!
    Apples and oranges. The Nazi flag has always been associated with the NSDAP. The Confederate flag has been a symbol of the South and its culture for decades. Symbols are defined by the communities that use them. If Germany kept the Nazi flag after transitioning to the Federal Republic of Germany, then it would be acceptable as the meaning would have changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Margot Frank View Post
    Nice spin,but there never was a CSA,they didn't win their freedom from being part of the USA.
    They didn't have to for it to exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I'm happily surprised that you see desecration of our flag as a rightful form of protest; most conservatives cannot see that -- even though the USSCt has ruled that it is protected speech.

    Of course a protest would be pointless if it did not cause comment, unrest, thought, and even outrage -- which is why flag-desecration is sometimes used by protesters to get attention and make a point. Do you think if the media didn't cover them, and the rest of us ignored them, they'd find some other way to spark comment, unrest, thought, and outrage?

    On word answer yes.


    Do you think if the media had ignored Kaepernick's national anthem kneeling and the administration hadn't made an issue of it, it would have become as common as it has?
    Yes I'm guilty of fanning the flames until I realized I was playing into his hands and spreading the word.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle-Eye View Post
    On word answer yes.


    Do you think if the media had ignored Kaepernick's national anthem kneeling and the administration hadn't made an issue of it, it would have become as common as it has?
    Yes I'm guilty of fanning the flames until I realized I was playing into his hands and spreading the word.
    I image that if the media hadn't focused so much on Kaep -- and if his team hadn't fired him -- the whole kerfluffle would have died a swift death.

    That being said, it is not the media that turned the Confederate flag into a symbol of racism. As several ppl have pointed out in this thread, that would be the white supremacists, the KKK, and the American Nazis. As for the rest of us citizens, ignoring those displaying racism and symbols of racism enables them. Ignoring them won't make them go away. Holding them up to public scorn works though. Notice how upset some here get, for instance, when told that they are racist. Even those who are proud bigots don't want the label because of the scorn and shame involved.

    I'm okay with our Southern friends flying their stars-and-bars.... they'll soon find out that that "free speech" comes with consequences.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    Apples and oranges. The Nazi flag has always been associated with the NSDAP. The Confederate flag has been a symbol of the South and its culture for decades. Symbols are defined by the communities that use them. If Germany kept the Nazi flag after transitioning to the Federal Republic of Germany, then it would be acceptable as the meaning would have changed.
    You defeated your own argument. Yes, the meaning of symbols can change over time. That is what has happened with the Confederate flag. Now it is seen as a symbol of racism.

    "But what is less well-known is the actual history of these symbols after the Civil War — and this history sheds important light on the debate. Confederate symbols have not always been a part of American or Southern life. They largely disappeared after the Civil War. And when they reappeared, it was not because of a newfound appreciation of Southern history.

    "Instead, as we argue in a newly published article, white Southerners reintroduced these symbols as a means of resisting the Civil Rights movement. The desire to maintain whites’ dominant position in the racial hierarchy of the United States was at the root of the rediscovery of Confederate symbols."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ght-them-back/
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    I image that if the media hadn't focused so much on Kaep -- and if his team hadn't fired him -- the whole kerfluffle would have died a swift death.

    That being said, it is not the media that turned the Confederate flag into a symbol of racism. As several ppl have pointed out in this thread, that would be the white supremacists, the KKK, and the American Nazis. As for the rest of us citizens, ignoring those displaying racism and symbols of racism enables them. Ignoring them won't make them go away. Holding them up to public scorn works though. Notice how upset some here get, for instance, when told that they are racist. Even those who are proud bigots don't want the label because of the scorn and shame involved.

    I'm okay with our Southern friends flying their stars-and-bars.... they'll soon find out that that "free speech" comes with consequences.
    While I admit the confederate flag is now seen as a hate symbol, I see it differently. If the media hadn't focused so much attention to these racist groups and their use of the Stars and Bars. It would never have become the issue it has.


    Remember Ruby Ridge in 1992? No one had heard of Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris, simply because the media wasn't interested until the government siege. Then it became front page news for months.

    Then there was the Aryan Nations, a racist group that only got media attention when a member was arrested. Then the were the Branch Davidians, that few had heard of till the siege by the government.


    Like mass shootings if the media would report it and not give every detail who what and when I believe there would be less of it. I may be wrong but that is my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle-Eye View Post
    Like mass shootings if the media would report it and not give every detail who what and when I believe there would be less of it. I may be wrong but that is my opinion.
    Which of course you're more than entitled to.

    As for me, I want the Fourth Estate to continue to report on what is going on in the world and in our nation -- the good, the bad, the ugly. The founding fathers knew that the an informed citizenry is vital to a free nation, and enshrined that in the First Amendment.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Which of course you're more than entitled to.

    As for me, I want the Fourth Estate to continue to report on what is going on in the world and in our nation -- the good, the bad, the ugly. The founding fathers knew that the an informed citizenry is vital to a free nation, and enshrined that in the First Amendment.
    I didn't say not report the news. How does it add to the story when the media reports on say a mass shooting and gives the shooters name and life history? All they are doing is give the perp his 15 minutes of fame. Which motivates another sick SOB to copycat so he/she can get their 15 minutes of fame.


    Here is how I would report the Walmart shooting.

    Mass shooting at Walmart store in X city X state.
    A lone gunman entered a Walmart armed with (type weapon used) and started firing at customers and employees killing 10 and wounding 15, and was killed by police in a shoot out. The shooter was confirmed to be an ex-employee who had been fired recently.

    The above gives you all the facts you require without giving the shooter any credit. That is called responsible reporting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle-Eye View Post
    I didn't say not report the news. How does it add to the story when the media reports on say a mass shooting and gives the shooters name and life history? All they are doing is give the perp his 15 minutes of fame. Which motivates another sick SOB to copycat so he/she can get their 15 minutes of fame.
    Here is how I would report the Walmart shooting.
    The above gives you all the facts you require without giving the shooter any credit. That is called responsible reporting.
    How do you feel about the follow-up news reports that show the victims' photos and names and a bit about them?

    Personally, I think the media should show the uncensored carnage. Showing photos of the victims in happy smiling shots isn't nearly as emotionally-wrenching as showing them in pools of blood and chunks of flesh and brain.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals." -- Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle-Eye View Post
    While I agree that they use those flags to intimidate people. By the same token by reacting with hatred toward the inanimate object you are doing what they want. If the media and people ignored the flags the racist groups would look for something else. When the KKK used the cross to intimidate black people those people took their anger out on the racist not the cross. Quite frankly I just think this is nothing but SJWs looking for a cause and the confederacy is that cause. Oh the white supremist use the flags but as I said if people didn't react to the symbols then they become worthless and the groups will find something else.

    Maybe because I spent so much time in the military and race relations in my community are very good I see things differently than you. I learned early in my career that no matter the ethnic background or skin color we all bleed red, making us all the same.
    Not telling racists that they are idiots does not make them go away or "better" in some way, nor does it make me "better". Telling racists that I think they should hide their stupid in a closet can...

    I choose to act in the hopes of a better future where idiots, at the very least, hide their stupid in the closet.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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