'Communism' or 'America First' ? RE: Rare Earth Metals.

[Jack]

"The United States Army plans to fund the construction of a Rare Earths processing facility to secure the domestic supply of minerals that are used to make military weapons and electronics, Reuters reported. This will be the first financial investment by the US military into commercial-scale Rare Earths production since the Manhattan Project to build the first atomic bomb during World War II, the report said."
https://indianexpress.com/article/ex...ir-processing/

[Jack]

"While Rare Earth elements are used in building consumer electronics, in healthcare and transportation, they are especially important for governments because of their use in manufacturing defence equipment. At present, China refines approximately 80%-90% of the world’s Rare Earths, thereby having substantial control over their supply."

Should America adopt the 'State Capitalism' to this sector of the Economy? You know, like China does with it's SOEs.

"State-owned enterprises of China
This is a list of state-owned enterprises of China. A state-owned enterprise is a legal entity that undertakes commercial activities on behalf of an owner government. Their legal status varies from being a part of government to stock companies with a state as a regular or dominant stockholder.Wikipedia

[Nordberg]

Rare earths are filthy to mine. We have them in America but it was easier to dig China's up. They did not have environmental standards. https://investingnews.com/daily/reso...erves-country/

[Jack]

"According to the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, after the Cultural Revolution in China ended, the country focussed on exploiting its natural resources. In 1992, on a visit to the Rare Earths district of Baotou in Inner Mongolia, China’s paramount leader Deng Xiaoping said: “The Middle East has its oil, China has Rare Earths; China’s Rare Earths deposits account for 80% of identified global reserves, you can compare the status of these reserves to that of oil in the Middle East. It is of extremely important strategic significance; we must be sure to handle the Rare Earth issue properly and make the fullest use of our country’s advantage in Rare Earth resources.” "


Question: Should America be a Puppet on the Strings of China like it was to Saudi Arabia and OPEC? Or should America adopt 'State Capitalism' or a 'National Champion' approach to this?


"National champions
National champions are corporations which are technically private businesses but due to governmental policy are ceded a dominant position in a national economy. In this system, these large organizations are expected not only to seek profit but also to "advance the interests of the nation"; the government sets policies which favor these organizations.Wikipedia"

[Jack]

Rare earths are filthy to mine. We have them in America but it was easier to dig China's up. They did not have environmental standards. https://investingnews.com/daily/reso...erves-country/

Yeah. So is Oil. We've sucked off the Saudi King and the 6,000 Princes/Princesses for 50 years, do you want to do the same with the Chinese Leadership?

[T. A. Gardner]

The radical Leftist environmentalists supported by the Leftists in the Democrat party and Congress will surely kill this idea. They absolutely HATE the idea of mining or extracting any resource whatsoever.

[Jack]

The radical Leftist environmentalists supported by the Leftists in the Democrat party and Congress will surely kill this idea. They absolutely HATE the idea of mining or extracting any resource whatsoever.

Maybe. I'm more interested in what the Right has to say. They are the ones that scream 'Communism' at any mention of 'Government support' for any Industry. (Like support for transforming the auto fleet to electric)

[T. A. Gardner]

Maybe. I'm more interested in what the Right has to say. They are the ones that scream 'Communism' at any mention of 'Government support' for any Industry. (Like support for transforming the auto fleet to electric)

Well here in Arizona, there are two mines that were about to open and really start major production with the Trump administration. One is a uranium mine in Northern Arizona, the other is projected to be the largest copper mine in the world outside of Superior Arizona. Both are now, again, facing limbo and opposition from a Leftist Democrat party even as they both have spent well over a decade jumping through every hoop and obstacle the Left has tossed at them to get going. The permits were finalized with the Trump administration but now Biden is trying to stop their opening fully.

He is killing off thousands of jobs at these mines, and thousands more in the towns and cities that support the workers. Both would provide jobs in areas that are economically depressed and would benefit greatly from. Neither needs government support to operate other than be permitted to operate.

[Jack]

Well here in Arizona, there are two mines that were about to open and really start major production with the Trump administration. One is a uranium mine in Northern Arizona, the other is projected to be the largest copper mine in the world outside of Superior Arizona. Both are now, again, facing limbo and opposition from a Leftist Democrat party even as they both have spent well over a decade jumping through every hoop and obstacle the Left has tossed at them to get going. The permits were finalized with the Trump administration but now Biden is trying to stop their opening fully.

He is killing off thousands of jobs at these mines, and thousands more in the towns and cities that support the workers. Both would provide jobs in areas that are economically depressed and would benefit greatly from. Neither needs government support to operate other than be permitted to operate.

Swell. I have no idea what the problem is. You simplify it as a 'Trump Good' ... 'Biden Bad' argument. I'm not able to debate any arguments for or against this.

The 'Debate' of this Thread is 'Communism' or 'America First'.
Is the 'Rare Earth' issue a National Defense issue. Does the Rare Earth Metals qualify as a 'National Security' issue and therefore 'Capitalism' does*NOT apply. Does 'Communism'/'America First' take center stage and dictate that this segment of the economy warrants 'Government Assistance'.

[T. A. Gardner]

Swell. I have no idea what the problem is. You simplify it as a 'Trump Good' ... 'Biden Bad' argument. I'm not able to debate any arguments for or against this.

The 'Debate' of this Thread is 'Communism' or 'America First'.
Is the 'Rare Earth' issue a National Defense issue. Does the Rare Earth Metals qualify as a 'National Security' issue and therefore 'Capitalism' does*NOT apply. Does 'Communism'/'America First' take center stage and dictate that this segment of the economy warrants 'Government Assistance'.

The problem is a handful of radical Leftist environmentalist groups allied with some equally insane Native Americans ("It's sacred ground!) don't want these mines. So, whenever a friendly administration is in power they tend to get their way regardless of legalities, no Communism or Nationalism involved. This is purely about partisan politics and individual's emotions and desires rather than good engineering and science applied.

And, yes, this is a national defense issue. These minerals are necessary to make the stuff the DoD uses and it's better they're able to source it from the US than a foreign nation.

Oh, this isn't "Trump good, Biden bad." It's Left insane and evil, the rest of society not so insane and evil (until you get to the far radical Right where a relative handful of knuckleheads exist mostly to perpetrate violence on each other).

[Jack]

The problem is a handful of radical Leftist environmentalist groups allied with some equally insane Native Americans ("It's sacred ground!) don't want these mines. So, whenever a friendly administration is in power they tend to get their way regardless of legalities, no Communism or Nationalism involved. This is purely about partisan politics and individual's emotions and desires rather than good engineering and science applied.

Well, I'm glad you have figured out what is going on in your backyard.

[T. A. Gardner]

Well, I'm glad you have figured out what is going on in your backyard.

I've seen it too many times now. The same groups saying the same idiotic, insane stuff, trying to stop any and all progress. My favorite is the Native Americans calling whatever the location is "Sacred ground."

The best two of those are these:

The Gila River Tribe was upset that the state was going to build a freeway (202 West)



That's the one on the lower left marked "South Mountain" loop 202

Anyway, they didn't like this so they started protesting. Now, the 202 section on the other side of I 10 (in light green) was already built. They whined about it too. Their call in both cases was it crossed "Sacred land." On the second section I mentioned (the one in light green), they put up on tribal land like a bazillion billboards along the freeway once it was completed because these brought the tribe a pile of cash. So much for "Sacred land."

The second was the Tonoho O'tham tribe (aka Papago) bought land in West Phoenix / Glendale and then got it designated tribal land as part of their reservation. That made it (their claim) suddenly "sacred land." They then built a casino on it right next to the Cardinal's football stadium and sports district... Some "sacred land" there...

When the Native Americans speak all I hear is "I could use another bottle of Jack Daniel's..." They're just the same sort of greedy bastards that are occupying Dirty City and the Capitol building.

[cancel2 2022]

Swell. I have no idea what the problem is. You simplify it as a 'Trump Good' ... 'Biden Bad' argument. I'm not able to debate any arguments for or against this.

The 'Debate' of this Thread is 'Communism' or 'America First'.
Is the 'Rare Earth' issue a National Defense issue. Does the Rare Earth Metals qualify as a 'National Security' issue and therefore 'Capitalism' does*NOT apply. Does 'Communism'/'America First' take center stage and dictate that this segment of the economy warrants 'Government Assistance'.

Of course they are defence and strategic issues. issues. However never mind two UK companies I have shares in are about to become massive. Only a crazy country like the US would have allowed Mountain Pass in California to go bankrupt and then be bought up by the Chicoms. That's very much the story of modern America, nimbyism and short termism.

https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/...ssons-learned/


https://pensana.co.uk/

https://rainbowrareearths.com/

[Jack]

Of course they are defence and strategic issues. issues. However never mind two UK companies I have shares in are about to become massive. Only a crazy country like the US would have allowed Mountain Pass in California to go bankrupt and then be bought up by the Chicoms. That's very much the story of modern America, nimbyism and short termism.

https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/...ssons-learned/


https://pensana.co.uk/

https://rainbowrareearths.com/

I'm for being pragmatic on this. Whether you call it 'Communism', or whether you call it 'America First', the U.S. needs to defend itself on this and NOT be a slave to some country that has no interest in America.

[Hawkeye10]

I'm for being pragmatic on this. Whether you call it 'Communism', or whether you call it 'America First', the U.S. needs to defend itself on this and NOT be a slave to some country that has no interest in America.

Hello Jack!