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Thread: Why Is America So Depressed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Yeah, not gonna happen. There's no evidence to suggest that reparations would result in the end of Islamic extremism against Israel.
    Of course it's not going to happen, because Israel wants war. But considering Israeli oppression is the main cause of the extremism against them, it's only logical to assume if the oppression ends, so will much of the hatred against Israel.


    Some Islamic nations had been moving towards Westernization, but the oil rich Gulf States never really fit that. Most Wahhabism originated in said states. Basically, some of the oil money gained by Saudi Arabia and other states of the area is used to spread Wahhabism throughout the world.

    It's not Israel that is the problem. The Gulf States are.
    I think if that was the case, then Islamic extremism wouldn't have grown after Israel was established.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    Of course it's not going to happen, because Israel wants war. But considering Israeli oppression is the main cause of the extremism against them, it's only logical to assume if the oppression ends, so will much of the hatred against Israel.
    Or the fact that the Islamic World has been antisemitic since long before Israel was created. Europe was much the same way up until the aftermath of WW2.


    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    I think if that was the case, then Islamic extremism wouldn't have grown after Israel was established.
    It grew along with oil revenue in the Gulf. The majority of Islamic extremism doesn't even target Jews or Westerners. It's against other Muslims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    Or the fact that the Islamic World has been antisemitic since long before Israel was created. Europe was much the same way up until the aftermath of WW2.
    If everywhere the Jews go, Anti-Semitism follows, maybe the Jews are the problem.
    And yes, the Muslim world was anti-semitic before Israel, but they weren't extremist until Israel. To be fair, the early extremist groups were funded by America to fight in the Cold War, but the average Muslim was still against extremism in these countries. Zionist oppression is what drove so many of them to support groups like the Taliban.

    It grew along with oil revenue in the Gulf. The majority of Islamic extremism doesn't even target Jews or Westerners. It's against other Muslims.
    That's because the Muslims at the top don't care about Israel or Jews. They're rich, they're going to live well no matter what. However, they use Zionism in their propaganda to recruit the working-class Muslims and will kill the more liberal Muslims who don't go along. The rich and powerful aren't really about Muslim liberation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    If everywhere the Jews go, Anti-Semitism follows, maybe the Jews are the problem.
    And yes, the Muslim world was anti-semitic before Israel, but they weren't extremist until Israel. To be fair, the early extremist groups were funded by America to fight in the Cold War, but the average Muslim was still against extremism in these countries. Zionist oppression is what drove so many of them to support groups like the Taliban.
    That's because the Muslims at the top don't care about Israel or Jews. They're rich, they're going to live well no matter what. However, they use Zionism in their propaganda to recruit the working-class Muslims and will kill the more liberal Muslims who don't go along. The rich and powerful aren't really about Muslim liberation.
    Just as this Christian Nation interpretation where one nation under God with equal justice under law Catholic Church "man is God" standing from SCOTUS Rehnquist's immaculate drug conception for those burning Bush's Al Qaeda "death to the infidels" 9/11 Federal Lynching enforcements fabricated Islam misnomer for a retired Washington, D.C. born WW II Pentagon staff sergeant to Eisenhower as Rehnquist's Bicentennial immaculate drug conception standing for thieving US Constitutions - old glorys - old testaments - absentee voting ballots arsonists in West Nazi Germany Virginia "serve the Pope or die" megalomaniacal crusades second coming master race compulsive - obsession.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saltydancin View Post
    Just as this Christian Nation interpretation where one nation under God with equal justice under law Catholic Church "man is God" standing from SCOTUS Rehnquist's immaculate drug conception for those burning Bush's Al Qaeda "death to the infidels" 9/11 Federal Lynching enforcements fabricated Islam misnomer for a retired Washington, D.C. born WW II Pentagon staff sergeant to Eisenhower as Rehnquist's Bicentennial immaculate drug conception standing for thieving US Constitutions - old glorys - old testaments - absentee voting ballots arsonists in West Nazi Germany Virginia "serve the Pope or die" megalomaniacal crusades second coming master race compulsive - obsession.
    That wasn't just a word salad, it was a word explosion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    If everywhere the Jews go, Anti-Semitism follows, maybe the Jews are the problem.
    And yes, the Muslim world was anti-semitic before Israel, but they weren't extremist until Israel. To be fair, the early extremist groups were funded by America to fight in the Cold War, but the average Muslim was still against extremism in these countries. Zionist oppression is what drove so many of them to support groups like the Taliban.
    What does the Taliban have to do with Israel? Again, one of the few extremist Islamic groups out there with a direct relationship to Israel is Hezbollah. Most of the other extremist groups have nothing to do with fighting Zionism or Israel in general. Al Quida was not about Israel. The Taliban was not. ISIS was not. Al Shabaab was not. Boko Haram was not.

    This idea that Israel somehow caused the extremist problem in Islam is nothing more than an attempt to scapegoat Zionists. You can blame Zionists for many things, but most extremism in Islam has a lot more to do with sectarian conflicts in Islam that are caused by the Gulf States and by Iran. Now, you could blame some Western meddling in the Middle East for the rise of extremism.

    Plenty of nations in the Middle East were originally on a path towards Westernization until we started undermining certain democratic leaders. The Soviets also undermined some Westernization as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    That's because the Muslims at the top don't care about Israel or Jews. They're rich, they're going to live well no matter what. However, they use Zionism in their propaganda to recruit the working-class Muslims and will kill the more liberal Muslims who don't go along. The rich and powerful aren't really about Muslim liberation.
    I would agree that they scapegoat Zionists oftentimes, but how they manipulate many Muslims is religious in nature. Salafism and Wahhabism are interpretations of Islam that are much more prone to extremism than less orthodox versions of Islam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    What does the Taliban have to do with Israel? Again, one of the few extremist Islamic groups out there with a direct relationship to Israel is Hezbollah. Most of the other extremist groups have nothing to do with fighting Zionism or Israel in general. Al Quida was not about Israel. The Taliban was not. ISIS was not. Al Shabaab was not. Boko Haram was not.
    The Taliban and those other groups used the threat of Zionism to recruit people. Part of how Osama bin Laden gained a following was by calling for the elimination of Israel.

    Plenty of nations in the Middle East were originally on a path towards Westernization until we started undermining certain democratic leaders. The Soviets also undermined some Westernization as well.
    That might have played a role too, but at most, it would have hurt the careers of those leaders. I think it's unlikely that would have driven all these people towards extremism.
    And the Soviets were very unpopular in the Middle East, both because Muslims fought them during the Cold War, and because they were Atheist. Did the Soviets undermining Westernization help bring the Muslims to extremism? Maybe, but I can't imagine that having much of an impact. It would be like North Korea telling us we have too much Democracy.

    I would agree that they scapegoat Zionists oftentimes, but how they manipulate many Muslims is religious in nature. Salafism and Wahhabism are interpretations of Islam that are much more prone to extremism than less orthodox versions of Islam.
    I would compare Islamic extremist leaders to the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages. Invasions were never about religion, until adding religion made the propaganda even stronger. Before the first Crusade, Catholics and Muslims got along well. But then when the Church wanted to take Jerusalem, all of a sudden Muslims were the enemies of Christ. Then when the Church wanted to attack the Eastern Orthodox Christians, the Muslims were the good guys again, so that the Catholics could team up with them.
    It's kind of like that with groups like Salafists and Wahhabists. The religion is there, but it's not the cause, it's only there as extra propaganda for wars that aren't really about religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    The Taliban and those other groups used the threat of Zionism to recruit people. Part of how Osama bin Laden gained a following was by calling for the elimination of Israel.



    That might have played a role too, but at most, it would have hurt the careers of those leaders. I think it's unlikely that would have driven all these people towards extremism.
    And the Soviets were very unpopular in the Middle East, both because Muslims fought them during the Cold War, and because they were Atheist. Did the Soviets undermining Westernization help bring the Muslims to extremism? Maybe, but I can't imagine that having much of an impact. It would be like North Korea telling us we have too much Democracy.



    I would compare Islamic extremist leaders to the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages. Invasions were never about religion, until adding religion made the propaganda even stronger. Before the first Crusade, Catholics and Muslims got along well. But then when the Church wanted to take Jerusalem, all of a sudden Muslims were the enemies of Christ. Then when the Church wanted to attack the Eastern Orthodox Christians, the Muslims were the good guys again, so that the Catholics could team up with them.
    It's kind of like that with groups like Salafists and Wahhabists. The religion is there, but it's not the cause, it's only there as extra propaganda for wars that aren't really about religion.
    I would agree that religion is largely a facade, but at the same time, the difference with Islam is that jihad is a concept that is much easier to use for the purpose of war. Mohammed himself was a conqueror, which is in stark contrast to Christ.

    Christianity obviously did plenty of conquering in its own right, but it required a lot of manipulation of religion to justify conquest. With Islam, conquest is the basis of the religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    I would agree that religion is largely a facade, but at the same time, the difference with Islam is that jihad is a concept that is much easier to use for the purpose of war. Mohammed himself was a conqueror, which is in stark contrast to Christ.

    Christianity obviously did plenty of conquering in its own right, but it required a lot of manipulation of religion to justify conquest. With Islam, conquest is the basis of the religion.
    And with Christianity, two main cornerstones of the religion are forgiveness and charity, but how many Christians care about that? It doesn't matter what the Bible and Koran say, all that matters is the culture that defines these religions. That's why, as I mentioned in another thread, so many Muslim Americans can support gay marriage. It doesn't matter that the Koran says homosexuality is a sin, because Islam isn't defined by the Koran. If most Muslims think gays are ok, then they'll just ignore that aspect of the Koran.

    Keep in mind that the Bible says bad children should be stoned to death by their parents. Christians don't do this because they don't actually get their morality from the Bible. It's the same with every religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    And with Christianity, two main cornerstones of the religion are forgiveness and charity, but how many Christians care about that? It doesn't matter what the Bible and Koran say, all that matters is the culture that defines these religions. That's why, as I mentioned in another thread, so many Muslim Americans can support gay marriage. It doesn't matter that the Koran says homosexuality is a sin, because Islam isn't defined by the Koran. If most Muslims think gays are ok, then they'll just ignore that aspect of the Koran.

    Keep in mind that the Bible says bad children should be stoned to death by their parents. Christians don't do this because they don't actually get their morality from the Bible. It's the same with every religion.
    The bolded is not true. Most Christians get their morality from the New Testament. Evangelicals focus a lot on the Old Testament as well, but evangelicals aren't the average Christian.

    Most Western Muslims are probably ok with gay people and gay marriage. Most Muslims outside of the West.... not so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    The bolded is not true. Most Christians get their morality from the New Testament. Evangelicals focus a lot on the Old Testament as well, but evangelicals aren't the average Christian.
    The New Testament says that Jesus did not come to change the old laws. All of the sins of the Old Testament are still sins, the only difference is now instead of sacrificing animals to atone, you can just ask Jesus for forgiveness.
    However, because modern Western Christians don't want to burn Wiccans to death, they just ignore the part of the New Testament that tells them to follow the Old Testament.

    Most Western Muslims are probably ok with gay people and gay marriage. Most Muslims outside of the West.... not so much.
    It's hard to say if that's true because of social pressures. Maybe most Muslims outside of the West aren't ok with gay people, but maybe they are and just can't say so because they'll be shunned or, even worse, accused of being gay themselves. Or maybe when they move to the West, they become more liberal, and that's the reason so many Muslims here support gay marriage. Either way, Muslims immigrating to America hasn't caused the Islamic invasion we keep hearing about. However, Arabs and other Middle Easterners have self-segregated themselves based on race, just like every other racial group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    The New Testament says that Jesus did not come to change the old laws. All of the sins of the Old Testament are still sins, the only difference is now instead of sacrificing animals to atone, you can just ask Jesus for forgiveness.
    However, because modern Western Christians don't want to burn Wiccans to death, they just ignore the part of the New Testament that tells them to follow the Old Testament.



    It's hard to say if that's true because of social pressures. Maybe most Muslims outside of the West aren't ok with gay people, but maybe they are and just can't say so because they'll be shunned or, even worse, accused of being gay themselves. Or maybe when they move to the West, they become more liberal, and that's the reason so many Muslims here support gay marriage. Either way, Muslims immigrating to America hasn't caused the Islamic invasion we keep hearing about. However, Arabs and other Middle Easterners have self-segregated themselves based on race, just like every other racial group.
    In America, they seem to assimilate well, but in a lot of Europe, not so much. I think this has to do with the fact that Europe doesn't screen their immigration much, whereas we do.

    It's easier for all kinds of Islamic migrants to enter Europe as compared with crossing the ocean to reach America. This seems to result in better educated and better skilled Muslims migrants here than the ones typically seen in Europe. There is one exception to this, however. Somali migrants (most of whom are also Muslim) don't tend to be well educated or skilled. Not surprisingly, they have the biggest issue with becoming extremists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneByStone View Post
    However, Arabs and other Middle Easterners have self-segregated themselves based on race, just like every other racial group.
    Just a side note here, but self-segregation is normal within any society. It's a bit different from having the state decide to block immigration based solely on race.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    I would agree that religion is largely a facade, but at the same time, the difference with Islam is that jihad is a concept that is much easier to use for the purpose of war. Mohammed himself was a conqueror, which is in stark contrast to Christ.
    Christianity obviously did plenty of conquering in its own right, but it required a lot of manipulation of religion to justify conquest. With Islam, conquest is the basis of the religion.
    America is so depressed because it's Christian Nation has been exposed with no direction to go. As if America would ever be great again with this Christian Nation "serve the Pope or die" more perfect union with "death to the infidels" Federal Lynching KKK churchstate of hate enforcement Islam bill of attainder for a retired WW II Washington, D.C. born Pentagon staff sergeant veteran to Eisenhower who had no knowledge of Arab "death to the infidels" terrorists threatening POTUS being over 1000 miles away & not having lunch while they ranted nor even informed except for Federal Lynching KKK churchstate of hate Mengele Angel of Death baptize thine eyes by urinations with threats of being killed Freudian slip for not knowing lynching enforcement business with Arab terrorists was announced as to nuke Temple Mount with SCOTUS Rehnquist's immaculate drug conception to ensure no one else could have been aware of prior to the Capital Hill outburst; while trying to have lunch & discuss D.C. sports teams. Suicidal Christiananality pedophilia super egos in sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming cross conditioned way beyond therapy forgiving themselves far beyond the pleasure principle in Catholic Church megalomaniacal crusades compulsive obsession avoidance of one nation under God acceptance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woko Haram View Post
    In America, they seem to assimilate well, but in a lot of Europe, not so much. I think this has to do with the fact that Europe doesn't screen their immigration much, whereas we do.

    It's easier for all kinds of Islamic migrants to enter Europe as compared with crossing the ocean to reach America. This seems to result in better educated and better skilled Muslims migrants here than the ones typically seen in Europe. There is one exception to this, however. Somali migrants (most of whom are also Muslim) don't tend to be well educated or skilled. Not surprisingly, they have the biggest issue with becoming extremists.
    That's totally possible. If that is the case, then it shows that it's not about Islam.
    People who have less opportunities in life are far more likely to resort to illegal activities, including political or religious extremism.

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