Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun That Killed Halyna Hutchins, Injured Director

[RB 60]

They have gotten much more serious about gun prop handling since then... But it is not California, so the laws in New Mexico might not have caught up. The props guy would have gone to prison for the Brandon Lee incident had happened a few years later.

Didn't Lee shoot himself? Why would anyone be charged, then or now?

[Walt]

Didn't Lee shoot himself? Why would anyone be charged, then or now?

The actor Massee pulled the trigger, but Massee would not be guilty of anything. The crew had messed up and combined an improperly made dummy round with a blank round. The dummy round pushed the bullet into the barrel, and then the blank round fired the bullet. Not only was the dummy round improperly made, but there was no check of the gun barrel before the blank round was used.

Gun laws have been tightened in California. Exceptions were made for studios, but only if they were willing to take criminal liability. Failing to follow proper safety is a crime, and would be prosecuted as such. Failing to follow proper safety causes a death is prosecuted now as manslaughter.

Again, not the actor's fault. Neither Lee nor Massee have any blame in this. It is the prop people who are supposed to make sure the guns are safe that are to blame.

[Walt]

Picture the drunken driver who runs over a child. Did he mean to kill the child? No. On one level, it was an accident, but an accident caused by him not caring enough to drive sober. Or picture the car robber fleeing the police who runs over a child. Again it is an accident, caused by him committing first the crime of stealing the car, and next the crime of fleeing the police. Or even picture the mechanic who certifies a plane engine is fine, when he did not even bother to inspect it. He certainly did not want anyone to die, but was not willing to take the time to bother to do his legal duty to prevent people from dying.

An accident caused by someone not bothering to do the legally required care is called manslaughter. It is not full on murder, but can get you thrown in prison for decades.

[RB 60]

The actor Massee pulled the trigger, but Massee would not be guilty of anything. The crew had messed up and combined an improperly made dummy round with a blank round. The dummy round pushed the bullet into the barrel, and then the blank round fired the bullet. Not only was the dummy round improperly made, but there was no check of the gun barrel before the blank round was used.

Gun laws have been tightened in California. Exceptions were made for studios, but only if they were willing to take criminal liability. Failing to follow proper safety is a crime, and would be prosecuted as such. Failing to follow proper safety causes a death is prosecuted now as manslaughter.

Again, not the actor's fault. Neither Lee nor Massee have any blame in this. It is the prop people who are supposed to make sure the guns are safe that are to blame.

Anyone who fires a gun with a blank at another's head is an idiot. Something (usually a paper wad with glue or some sort of sealant) seals the end of the cartridge to keep the powder in and dry. As with any loaded cartridge, there is a great amount of pressure leaving the barrel and the barrel should never be pointed at anyone. Even a cartridge having just a primer and no powder is enough to fire a wax bullet with enough velocity to hurt badly.

[Walt]

Anyone who fires a gun with a blank at another's head is an idiot.

It was at his stomach, and it was at 12 to 15 feet away. It should not have been dangerous. The issue here was that there was a bullet in the barrel, making the blank round not a blank round. A blank round alone would not have been dangerous.

And more importantly, Massee was not responsible for making sure that it was not dangerous. It was the prop crew that is responsible for making sure that it can be done safely. Massee did as instructed, and so shared none of the blame. This is pretty much the only situation imaginable where the shooter does not share any of the blame, but there we are.

[Bulletbob]

It was at his stomach, and it was at 12 to 15 feet away. It should not have been dangerous. The issue here was that there was a bullet in the barrel, making the blank round not a blank round. A blank round alone would not have been dangerous.

And more importantly, Massee was not responsible for making sure that it was not dangerous. It was the prop crew that is responsible for making sure that it can be done safely. Massee did as instructed, and so shared none of the blame. This is pretty much the only situation imaginable where the shooter does not share any of the blame, but there we are.

please explain how a bullet got stuck in a barrel ? it makes no sense .

[Walt]

please explain how a bullet got stuck in a barrel ? it makes no sense .

The first take was with a blank round. That is a round that has a real bullet, but no powder. It was also supposed to have no primer, but the props people left the primer on it. The primer pushed the bullet into the barrel. The props people were supposed to check the barrel for the bullet, but again failed to do this. Then a dummy bullet was put in the gun for the next take. That is the powder without the bullet. When it went off, it propelled the bullet from the blank round into Lee.

There are a dozen safety procedures to make sure that this never happens, most were intentionally ignored by the props people. On one level it was an accident, but on another level it was an accident caused by not caring about basic safety.

[Cinnabar]

Picture the drunken driver who runs over a child. Did he mean to kill the child? No. On one level, it was an accident, but an accident caused by him not caring enough to drive sober. Or picture the car robber fleeing the police who runs over a child. Again it is an accident, caused by him committing first the crime of stealing the car, and next the crime of fleeing the police. Or even picture the mechanic who certifies a plane engine is fine, when he did not even bother to inspect it. He certainly did not want anyone to die, but was not willing to take the time to bother to do his legal duty to prevent people from dying.

An accident caused by someone not bothering to do the legally required care is called manslaughter. It is not full on murder, but can get you thrown in prison for decades.

negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter.

[RB 60]

It was at his stomach, and it was at 12 to 15 feet away. It should not have been dangerous. The issue here was that there was a bullet in the barrel, making the blank round not a blank round. A blank round alone would not have been dangerous.

And more importantly, Massee was not responsible for making sure that it was not dangerous. It was the prop crew that is responsible for making sure that it can be done safely. Massee did as instructed, and so shared none of the blame. This is pretty much the only situation imaginable where the shooter does not share any of the blame, but there we are.

A blank round is dangerous, especially one loaded with powder.

Walt, you don't have any experience, or knowledge of the pressures that exit a barrel, even a round firing just a primer. How did a bullet get in the barrel in the first place?

It is ALWAYS the person's responsibility handling the gun to make sure it is safe. There is NO other "situation," period. That is one of the things I stressed most when I taught firearms training.

[Lightbringer]

A blank round is dangerous, especially one loaded with powder.

Walt, you don't have any experience, or knowledge of the pressures that exit a barrel, even a round firing just a primer. How did a bullet get in the barrel in the first place?

It is ALWAYS the person's responsibility handling the gun to make sure it is safe. There is NO other "situation," period. That is one of the things I stressed most when I taught firearms training.

Walt doesn't know a lot of shit.

[Walt]

How did a bullet get in the barrel in the first place?

I have explained that to you twice already. You are intentionally ignoring the explanation at this point.

A blank round is dangerous, especially one loaded with powder.

You are certainly making a strong argument for the props people going to prison. They legally certified it as completely safe. It would have been safe at that distance, and without the bullet.

It is ALWAYS the person's responsibility handling the gun to make sure it is safe. There is NO other "situation," period. That is one of the things I stressed most when I taught firearms training.

That was the original intent of the bill, but if that were done, movies would be impossible to film. So a single carve out was made for films, and other such productions.

There are many gun safety rules that must be broken to film a movie, which is why so many gun safety rules are added to the filming of a movie.

[Walt]

Walt doesn't know a lot of shit.

There are many things I do not know, but I am very good at knowing what I do not know. You and RB think you are experts on everything, but really know very little.

[Walt]

negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter.

Yes, you are correct Cinnabar. Negligent homicide is another crime involving an "accident." I think negligent homicide is more heavily an accident where there was not care, and involuntary manslaughter is more another criminal act that accidentally caused a death. I might have them reversed.

[Bulletbob]

The first take was with a blank round. That is a round that has a real bullet, but no powder. It was also supposed to have no primer, but the props people left the primer on it. The primer pushed the bullet into the barrel. The props people were supposed to check the barrel for the bullet, but again failed to do this. Then a dummy bullet was put in the gun for the next take. That is the powder without the bullet. When it went off, it propelled the bullet from the blank round into Lee.

There are a dozen safety procedures to make sure that this never happens, most were intentionally ignored by the props people. On one level it was an accident, but on another level it was an accident caused by not caring about basic safety.

Im not familar with movie prop procedure but why would any idiot put a real bullet in a prop gun.they should not be capable of firing .

[RB 60]

There are many things I do not know, but I am very good at knowing what I do not know. You and RB think you are experts on everything, but really know very little.

Walt, I was a firearms instructor for over 20 years. I shot wax bullets for practice in my parent's basement for years, propelled with just the primer, in my younger days. I haven't purchased a box of cartridges in longer than I can remember (other than .22s). I reload for everything I shoot, so understanding pressures is very important so I don't blow up my firearms. Expert? Sure, there are those more knowledgeable than me, but I sure as hell know far more about firearms and reloading for them than you. And yes, blanks can be dangerous.