The Hypocrats

**Cancel 2020.1** · 07-20-2018, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Omar

This is worse than relaying the message to Putin, in private, that one would ‘be more flexible after re-election’ how exactly?

It's not even comparable.

I don't see how you missed the memo - the "but Obama!" stuff isn't gaining any traction.

**Cancel 2020.1** · 07-20-2018, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by anatta

given Brennan etc, I would be wary of US intelligence -but that's just me.
I think they are all a bunch of Russiaphobes-it's innate to the IC.

However on a more real world trajectoiry I'm convinced we are forcing Putin ( military engineering) and China
( the money and desire to upgrade and modernize weapons)into an ad hoc alliance that isn't good for any of us.

It's fine to be wary of our intel, especially after Iraq. But to publicly take an adversary's side over them, on a key issue like this?

Stop. Making. Excuses.

**Darth Omar** · 07-20-2018, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Thing1

It's not even comparable.

I don't see how you missed the memo - the "but Obama!" stuff isn't gaining any traction.

Why shouldn’t it though lol?

Different strokes for different folks? Rules were changed for Trump?

**anatta** · 07-20-2018, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Thing1

It's fine to be wary of our intel, especially after Iraq. But to publicly take an adversary's side over them, on a key issue like this?

Stop. Making. Excuses.

meh. I could care less..it's Kabuki outrage by the Dems -"treason" and so forth.

What you should be worried about is Trump's desire to make some accommodation with Putin is being de-railed by the hawks.
The top of the food chain is John Bolton, and he thinks we should be "tough on Russia" just because..

I see a lot of shit about "who is tougher -Obama or Trump" *barf*

**anatta** · 07-20-2018, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Omar

Why shouldn’t it though lol?

Different strokes for different folks? Rules were changed for Trump?

no Russian reset for you! *soup nazi voice*

**Darth Omar** · 07-20-2018, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by anatta

meh. I could care less..it's Kabuki outrage by the Dems -"treason" and so forth.

What you should be worried about is Trump's desire to make some accommodation with Putin is being de-railed by the hawks.
The top of the food chain is John Bolton, and he thinks we should be "tough on Russia" just because..

I see a lot of shit about "who is tougher -Obama or Trump" *barf*

Trump has been tougher on Putin and it’s not even close lol.

The conspiracy theory is immune to facts, apparently.

**Cancel 2020.1** · 07-20-2018, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Omar

Why shouldn’t it though lol?

Different strokes for different folks? Rules were changed for Trump?

No.

How in the world do you think this is comparable? Trump gets concrete evidence that Russia interfered in our election, stands at a podium in a public news conference, disparages our intel community, apologizes for America and TAKES PUTIN'S SIDE over our intel.

Besides, I've already told you - all I did was criticize Obama on foreign policy. I didn't spend every day defending him and making excuses for him, as you do for Trump. I don't know why you think "but Obama!" is working.

**anatta** · 07-20-2018, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Omar

Trump has been tougher on Putin and it’s not even close lol.

The conspiracy theory is immune to facts, apparently.

da Russian! collusion!

On the other hand Trump is fucking tone deaf and should understand simply being "tough" on Putin
doesn't matter with the palpable Russiaphobia out there.

The Dems are becoming all warpigs - and the media hypes that crap up. so act tough enuf

**Cancel 2020.1** · 07-20-2018, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by anatta

meh. I could care less..it's Kabuki outrage by the Dems -"treason" and so forth.

What you should be worried about is Trump's desire to make some accommodation with Putin is being de-railed by the hawks.
The top of the food chain is John Bolton, and he thinks we should be "tough on Russia" just because..

I see a lot of shit about "who is tougher -Obama or Trump" *barf*

The last part is all because of the GOP talking point issued earlier this week that devotees have to argue that Trump's actions are much tougher than what Obama ever did.

**anatta** · 07-20-2018, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Thing1

The last part is all because of the GOP talking point issued earlier this week that devotees have to argue that Trump's actions are much tougher than what Obama ever did.

lol.. they are! by a wide margin.

sanctions - and really tough ones on oligarchs and restricting banking
sending JAVELIN to Donbass
and a few more i'm forgetting until I finish my coffee

**Cancel 2020.1** · 07-20-2018, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by anatta

lol.. they are! by a wide margin.

sanctions - and really tough ones on oligarchs and restricting banking
sending JAVELIN to Donbass
and a few more i'm forgetting until I finish my coffee

So what?

**Darth Omar** · 07-20-2018, 07:55 AM

Obama’s flexibility comment was worse than Trump’s comments, and here’s why:

Obama’s comment implied future action that would *benefit Russia*. Set aside the hysteria over Trump’s dissing of the IC in front of Putin, when it’s all said and done, Trump’s sin was committing what amounted to a social faux pas on the world stage.

In other words, it entailed no further action beyond mere words. And in fact, Putin has every reason to wish Obama was back in office with Obama’s false Red Lines in Syria, sitting on his hands while Putin annexes Ukraine and etc.

Trump’s Helsinki statement had absolutely no practical benefit to Putin.

**anatta** · 07-20-2018, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Thing1

So what?

Thing1
The last part is all because of the GOP talking point issued earlier this week that devotees have to argue that Trump's actions are much tougher than what Obama ever did.

you brought it up

**canceled.2021.2** · 07-20-2018, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Thing1

It's not even comparable.

I don't see how you missed the memo - the "but Obama!" stuff isn't gaining any traction.

That you choose to ignore it to avoid being a hypocrite doesn't make it less relevant.

Obama met in private with Putin with only interpreters. Where was the outrage? Did you express outrage?

Oh wait, I am sure that you will say "Putin didn't attack us" right?

Why can't you just be honest and say that it doesn't matter what the issue is, you will always seek a way to criticize Trump even if it is inconsistent with how you reacted to the same behaviors of Obama.

Had Trump turned to Putin and called him a liar, today you would be screaming at the top of your lungs about how "Trump is risking NUCLEAR WAR by calling out Putin"

You aren't taken seriously

**Cancel 2020.1** · 07-20-2018, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Darth Omar

Obama’s flexibility comment was worse than Trump’s comments, and here’s why:

Obama’s comment implied future action that would *benefit Russia*. Set aside the hysteria over Trump’s dissing of the IC in front of Putin, when it’s all said and done, Trump’s sin was committing what amounted to a social faux pas on the world stage.

In other words, it entailed no further action beyond mere words. And in fact, Putin has every reason to wish Obama was back in office with Obama’s false Red Lines in Syria, sitting on his hands while Putin annexes Ukraine and etc.

Trump’s Helsinki statement had absolutely no practical benefit to Putin.

I'm going to save this for whenever anyone on the board asks me for an example of "hopelessly partisan."

Someday, we'll have to discuss the alternate universe where Obama had that kind of press conference w/ Putin, and talk radio/Fox blew up, screaming that he was on a world apology tour, gave comfort to the enemy on foreign soil, was really a Muslim in disguise (and hey, you know that one, right?), and took sides with tyrants over the U.S. Oh, and where you & anatta were starting a few threads a day agreeing & talking about what a traitor he was, and how Democrats in general were weak on foreign policy.