Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 74

Thread: “Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse due to years of U.S. foolishness"

  1. #1 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default “Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse due to years of U.S. foolishness"

    President Trump offended the entire political spectrum with a tweet this morning blaming the U.S. for poor relations with Russia.
    “Our relationship with Russia has NEVER been worse thanks to many years of U.S. foolishness and stupidity,” the president said
    , and he is entirely correct. By this I do not mean to say that Russia is a beneficent actor in world affairs or that President Putin is an admirable world leader. Nonetheless, the president displayed both perspicacity and political courage when he pointed the finger at the United States for mismanaging the relationship with Russia.

    Full disclosure: I was a card-carrying member of the neoconservative cabal that planned to bring Western-style democracy and free markets to Russia after the fall of Communism. As chief economist for the supply-side consulting firm Polyconomics, I got an appointment as an adviser to Boris Yeltsin’s finance ministry and made several trips to Moscow. Of course, the finance ministry really was a family office for Yeltsin’s oligarch friends, who were too busy stealing Russia’s economy to listen to advice. The experience cured me of the neoconservative delusion that democracy and free markets are the natural order of things.

    Unfortunately, the delusion that the United States would remake Russia in its own image persisted through the Bush and Obama administrations. I have no reason to doubt the allegations that a dozen Russian intelligence officers meddled in the U.S. elections of 2016, but this was equivalent of a fraternity prank compared to America’s longstanding efforts to intervene in Russian politics.

    The United States supported the 2014 Maidan uprising in Ukraine and the overthrow of the Yanukovych government in the hope of repeating the exercise in Moscow sometime later. Then-Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland pulled whatever strings America had to replace the feckless and corrupt Victor Yanukovych with a government hostile to the Kremlin. She didn’t say it in so many words, but she hoped the Ukraine coup would lead to the overthrow of Vladimir Putin. Evidently Nuland and her boss, Hillary Clinton, thought that the Ukraine coup would deprive Russia of its Black Sea naval base in Crimea, and did not anticipate that Russia simply would annex an old Russian province that belonged to Ukraine by historical accident.

    At the time, liberal opinion evanesced with the notion that Moscow would follow Maidan. The Christian Science Monitor reported in February 2014:

    Some in Russia's liberal community see in the Maidan a hope that the Kremlin, no matter how solid it looks, could one day crack under similar popular pressure. "What we are seeing in Ukraine is the realization of the Ukrainian people's aspiration for democracy, of the right to revolt," says Sergei Davidis, a board member of Solidarnost, a liberal opposition coalition. "It doesn't mean we're ready to follow that example. Russian conditions are different. But in the long run, as the contradictions pile up, we may well come to the same pass and find ourselves with no alternatives but the Ukrainian one."

    Of course, no such thing occurred.

    The Maidan coup was the second American attempt to install a Ukrainian government hostile to Moscow; the first occurred in 2004, when Condoleezza Rice was secretary of State rather than Hillary Clinton. As I wrote in Asia Times a decade ago, “On the night of November 22, 2004, then-Russian president - now premier - Vladimir Putin watched the television news in his dacha near Moscow. People who were with Putin that night report his anger and disbelief at the unfolding 'Orange' revolution in Ukraine. ‘They lied to me,’ Putin said bitterly of the United States. ‘I'll never trust them again.’ The Russians still can't fathom why the West threw over a potential strategic alliance for Ukraine. They underestimate the stupidity of the West."

    American efforts to promote a democratic opposition to Putin have failed miserably, and as John Lloyd wrote recently at Reuters, the Russian president remains genuinely popular. This remains a source of perpetual frustration for the neoconservatives, who cannot fathom why dictatorships still exist. Russia is a brutal country that always has been governed by brutal men. No-one talks about Ivan the Reasonable. Compared to Peter the Great or Alexander II, let alone Stalin or Ivan the Terrible, Putin is one of Russia’s gentler heads of state. I attempted to explain why in this 2016 essay for Asia Times.

    Thanks to President Trump, Russia (as well as China) now understands that America’s intervention in Iraq was not a deliberate effort to destabilize the region, and that its support for Sunni jihadists in Syria was not a deliberate effort to create an Islamist monster with which to destabilize Russia. Under the headline “They’ll never believe we’re that stupid,” I wrote in May 2015: “Beijing and Moscow made up their minds some time ago that the United States had deliberately unleashed chaos on the Levant as part of a malevolent plan of some kind. The Chinese and Russians (and most of the rest of the world) simply cannot process the notion that the United States is run by clueless amateurs who stumble from one half-baked initiative to another, with no overall plan (except, of course, to persuade the Persians to become America’s friends rather than enemies). …Incompetence has consequences. One of the consequences will be that our competitors and adversaries will take us for knaves instead of fools, or even worse, will recognize that we are fools after all.”

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to anatta For This Post:

    Stretch (07-18-2018)

  3. #2 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    by every indication, the people of Russia nonetheless seem to like their government. If they want a different sort of government, let them establish one; what sort of government they prefer is not the business of the United States. America’s attempt to shape Russia’s destiny, starting with the Clinton administration’s sponsorship of the feckless, drunk and corrupt Boris Yeltsin, had baleful results. So did the State Department’s attempt to manipulate events in Ukraine in 2004 and 2014.

    I'm no Russophile. I'm an old Cold Warrior. I don't like Putin. I don't even like Dostoevsky (he invents improbable characters to suit his theological agenda) or Tolstoy (Pierre Bezukhov and Anna Karenina bore me). I don't especially like Tchaikovsky or Mussorgsky. I don't like drinking Russian-style (get as drunk as you can as fast as you can). I like a lot of individual Russians -- they have guts, and tell you what they think. I'm so leery of Putin's machinations in Europe that I prefer Angela Merkel to the Putin-friendly German right wing.

    Nonetheless, it was America that made a mess of relations with Russia, and President Trump’s tweet this morning was right on the mark. You can usually gauge the merits of this president's public statements by the decibel level of the protests.

    https://pjmedia.com/spengler/once-ag...-about-russia/

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to anatta For This Post:

    Stretch (07-18-2018)

  5. #3 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    2,422
    Thanks
    1,986
    Thanked 1,606 Times in 982 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 37 Times in 36 Posts

    Default

    So you are basically blaming America first. right?
    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    by every indication, the people of Russia nonetheless seem to like their government. If they want a different sort of government, let them establish one; what sort of government they prefer is not the business of the United States. America’s attempt to shape Russia’s destiny, starting with the Clinton administration’s sponsorship of the feckless, drunk and corrupt Boris Yeltsin, had baleful results. So did the State Department’s attempt to manipulate events in Ukraine in 2004 and 2014.

    I'm no Russophile. I'm an old Cold Warrior. I don't like Putin. I don't even like Dostoevsky (he invents improbable characters to suit his theological agenda) or Tolstoy (Pierre Bezukhov and Anna Karenina bore me). I don't especially like Tchaikovsky or Mussorgsky. I don't like drinking Russian-style (get as drunk as you can as fast as you can). I like a lot of individual Russians -- they have guts, and tell you what they think. I'm so leery of Putin's machinations in Europe that I prefer Angela Merkel to the Putin-friendly German right wing.

    Nonetheless, it was America that made a mess of relations with Russia, and President Trump’s tweet this morning was right on the mark. You can usually gauge the merits of this president's public statements by the decibel level of the protests.

    https://pjmedia.com/spengler/once-ag...-about-russia/
    Be Best

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to mak2 For This Post:

    christiefan915 (07-18-2018)

  7. #4 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    93,662
    Thanks
    9,767
    Thanked 33,622 Times in 21,485 Posts
    Groans
    290
    Groaned 5,632 Times in 5,140 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Don’t expose Russian interference, it might make em mad!

  8. The Following User Groans At Jarod For This Awful Post:

    cancel2 2022 (07-18-2018)

  9. #5 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    So you are basically blaming America first. right?
    US mishandled Russian relations starting with the fall of Berlin -German re-unification. by NATO expansion

    What the OP show is our manipulation in the Ukraine,which caused the 2014 revolution -
    which led to the Crimean annexation due to threatened access to Sevastopol for Russia's Black Sea navy


    It also shows Russia
    I'm so leery of Putin's machinations in Europe that I prefer Angela Merkel to the Putin-friendly German right wing.

    Nonetheless, it was America that made a mess of relations with Russia, and President Trump’s tweet this morning was right on the mark. You can usually gauge the merits of this president's public statements by the decibel level of the protests.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to anatta For This Post:

    Stretch (07-18-2018)

  11. #6 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    The United States supported the 2014 Maidan uprising in Ukraine and the overthrow of the Yanukovych government in the hope of repeating the exercise in Moscow sometime later. Then-Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland pulled whatever strings America had to replace the feckless and corrupt Victor Yanukovych with a government hostile to the Kremlin. She didn’t say it in so many words, but she hoped the Ukraine coup would lead to the overthrow of Vladimir Putin. Evidently Nuland and her boss, Hillary Clinton, thought that the Ukraine coup would deprive Russia of its Black Sea naval base in Crimea, and did not anticipate that Russia simply would annex an old Russian province that belonged to Ukraine by historical accident.


    Vicky Nuland and her cupcakes -Independence Square -Kyiv 2014



    John McCain urging on the revolution. Independence Square -Kyiv 2014

  12. #7 | Top
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    108,120
    Thanks
    60,501
    Thanked 35,051 Times in 26,519 Posts
    Groans
    47,393
    Groaned 4,742 Times in 4,521 Posts
    Blog Entries
    61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Don’t expose Russian interference, it might make em mad!
    Haters would rather go to war with Putin than get along with Russia claims Trump as he abandons any pretense of apology for disastrous press conference and claims 'higher ends of intelligence' SUPPORT him


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ims-Trump.html

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cancel2 2022 For This Post:

    anatta (07-18-2018), Stretch (07-18-2018)

  14. #8 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    The Maidan coup was the second American attempt to install a Ukrainian government hostile to Moscow; the first occurred in 2004, when Condoleezza Rice was secretary of State rather than Hillary Clinton. As I wrote in Asia Times a decade ago, “On the night of November 22, 2004, then-Russian president - now premier - Vladimir Putin watched the television news in his dacha near Moscow. People who were with Putin that night report his anger and disbelief at the unfolding 'Orange' revolution in Ukraine. ‘They lied to me,’ Putin said bitterly of the United States. ‘I'll never trust them again.’ The Russians still can't fathom why the West threw over a potential strategic alliance for Ukraine. They underestimate the stupidity of the West."
    Kissinger: “demonization of Vladimir Putin is not a policy; it is an alibi for the absence of one.”
    ________

    Cold War 2.0 Russia hysteria is turning people’s brains into guacamole.
    We’ve got to find a way to snap out of the propaganda trance
    ________

    Buddha: "trust the person who seeks truth and mistrust the person who claims he has found it "
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7. All Good Children Go to Heaven

  15. #9 | Top
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Mid-West
    Posts
    24,406
    Thanks
    2,522
    Thanked 14,824 Times in 8,868 Posts
    Groans
    4
    Groaned 896 Times in 801 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Whatever ...
    ONE-N-DONE, YOU GOT PLAYED; Time To Play-On
    Remember ... ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES ... So STFU Bitch

  16. #10 | Top
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    105
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default

    Oddly enough the government in Russia seems to be more popular than the government in the US?

    Russia has a traditional interest in Sevastopol, but the US has no valid interests in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, or any of the many places we are murdering innocent civilians.

  17. #11 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Haters would rather go to war with Putin than get along with Russia claims Trump as he abandons any pretense of apology for disastrous press conference and claims 'higher ends of intelligence' SUPPORT him


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ims-Trump.html
    While the NATO meeting in Brussels was an acknowledged triumph, with billions of dollars more being put up by member countries at a faster pace, the meeting with Russia may prove to be, in the long run, an even greater success. Many positive things will come out of that meeting,' Trump wrote.


    And he got in one final tweet about the situation, noting Russia promised to help him with North Korea, where the president hopes to denuclearize the Korean peninsula.

    'Russia has agreed to help with North Korea, where relationships with us are very good and the process is moving along. There is no rush, the sanctions remain! Big benefits and exciting future for North Korea at end of process!,' the president touted.
    ++
    "Blessed are the peacemakers"
    Kissinger: “demonization of Vladimir Putin is not a policy; it is an alibi for the absence of one.”
    ________

    Cold War 2.0 Russia hysteria is turning people’s brains into guacamole.
    We’ve got to find a way to snap out of the propaganda trance
    ________

    Buddha: "trust the person who seeks truth and mistrust the person who claims he has found it "
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7. All Good Children Go to Heaven

  18. #12 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigby5 View Post
    Oddly enough the government in Russia seems to be more popular than the government in the US?

    Russia has a traditional interest in Sevastopol, but the US has no valid interests in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, Palestine, Syria, or any of the many places we are murdering innocent civilians.
    Russia has a naval base in Sevastopol -yes. We also do have legit interests in Egypt ( Libya we completely destroyed).
    Plus we have at least anti-terrorism 'interests' in Yemen and Afghanistan.

    We have no business whatsoever going around the work with our regime changes -like we also did in Ukraine

  19. #13 | Top
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    93,662
    Thanks
    9,767
    Thanked 33,622 Times in 21,485 Posts
    Groans
    290
    Groaned 5,632 Times in 5,140 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Has Rump ever heard of the Cold War?

  20. #14 | Top
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    life
    Posts
    52,794
    Thanks
    13,341
    Thanked 22,579 Times in 15,814 Posts
    Groans
    249
    Groaned 1,951 Times in 1,862 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    Has Rump ever heard of the Cold War?
    why do you think there has been a return to the Cold War ( Cold War 2.0) ?

  21. #15 | Top
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Lansing Ks
    Posts
    33,929
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 14,544 Times in 9,995 Posts
    Groans
    0
    Groaned 1,099 Times in 1,011 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    So you are basically blaming America first. right?
    Thats what the left does when it comes to any part of the Middle East!

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-06-2017, 11:47 AM
  2. APP - Russia collusion gets worse for Trump
    By canceled.2021.3 in forum Above Plain Politics Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-12-2017, 02:50 PM
  3. Relationship with Russia at an all time low?
    By Jarod in forum Current Events Forum
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 08-03-2017, 08:23 AM
  4. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-13-2012, 02:22 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •