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Thread: A religious Oregon couple didn’t believe in medical care

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    so from the moment of birth til the age of 18, we should make those kids wards of the state and remove parental rights?
    Your leaps from this to that is athletic if nothing else. If parents are behaving in a way that endangers the lives of their children then yes. But we already do that. However, religious parents seem to get some sort of exemption from moral responsibility when it comes to such things. At the very least they aren't punished to the same extent, if at all, as other parents who cause harm or even death to their children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    "Greece and Rome[edit]"
    "The historical Greeks considered the practice of adult and child sacrifice barbarous,[29] however, the exposure of newborns was widely practiced in ancient Greece, it was even advocated by Aristotle in the case of congenital deformity — "As to the exposure of children, let there be a law that no deformed child shall live.”[30] In Greece the decision to expose a child was typically the father's, although in Sparta the decision was made by a group of elders.[31] Exposure was the preferred method of disposal, as that act in itself was not considered to be murder; moreover, the exposed child technically had a chance of being rescued by the gods or any passersby.[32] This very situation was a recurring motif in Greek mythology.[33] To notify the neighbors of a birth of a child, a woolen strip was hung over the front door to indicate a female baby and an olive branch to indicate a boy had been born. Families did not always keep their new child. After a woman had a baby, she would show it to her husband. If the husband accepted it, it would live, but if he refused it, it would die. Babies would often be rejected if they were illegitimate, unhealthy or deformed, the wrong sex, or too great a burden on the family. These babies would not be directly killed, but put in a clay pot or jar and deserted outside the front door or on the roadway. In ancient Greek religion, this practice took the responsibility away from the parents because the child would die of natural causes, for example hunger, asphyxiation or exposure to the elements."

    Why not respect the personal choice of others?
    Lol @ woolen strips and olive branches! Not too hard to figure out why those signifiers were chosen.

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    Was a midwife present? If not they should be charged with child neglect?!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    these people and the followers of that kook region should be permanently placed in mental institutions and chemically castrated, in the name of jebus of course



    The deputy medical examiner knew before knocking on the door. There was a grim scene waiting for Eric Tonsfeldt inside the single-story house set among the pine trees outside of Oregon City, Oregon — a tragedy that had played out there before.

    It was around 8:45 on March 5, 2017, and the Clackamas County official was responding to a report of a dead newborn.

    The child had not been delivered in a hospital. She wasn’t attended to by doctors and nurses. The baby died amid the murmured prayers of friends and family.

    this was a familiar occurrence with members of the Followers of Christ Church, a faith-healing sect


    https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018...oregon-couple/

    Oh look, it's Joseph Mengele.

    You're such an evil little Nazi, Guno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    That's so sad. I never understood that "thinking." Fine if you're an adult and that is your choice for yourself, but to inflict it on kids who don't have a choice?
    We've all seen the stories of children over the years who died from the complications of diabetes, of an infection, or some other preventable and curable ailment. It's stupid, and wrong.
    I can't access the article as I am blocked due to the EU rules, but what makes you certain that the baby wouldn't be just as dead had she be born in a hospital? It happens more often than people acknowledge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotcha68 View Post
    Your leaps from this to that is athletic if nothing else. If parents are behaving in a way that endangers the lives of their children then yes. But we already do that. However, religious parents seem to get some sort of exemption from moral responsibility when it comes to such things. At the very least they aren't punished to the same extent, if at all, as other parents who cause harm or even death to their children.
    there's this thing called the 1st Amendment. maybe you've heard of it?
    A sad commentary on we, as a people, and our viewpoint of our freedom can be summed up like this. We have liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, yet those very people look at Constitutionalists as radical and extreme.................so those liberals and conservatives, Democrats and Republicans must believe that the constitution is radical and extreme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmarterthanYou View Post
    there's this thing called the 1st Amendment. maybe you've heard of it?
    So practicing your religion to the extent that it causes harm or death to your child falls under the 1st Amendment? If that is, in fact, true then we clearly are a fallen nation that we protect child abusers rather than the children in their control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncensored2008 View Post
    Oh look, it's Joseph Mengele.

    You're such an evil little Nazi, Guno.
    oh look! the poor pork stenched goy from the other board
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    oh look! the poor pork stenched goy from the other board
    Back to the "Goyim want a pork treat", guno?

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    no Jack......only barbarians kill their own children......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Back to the "Goyim want a pork treat", guno?
    that pork stanched mutant deserves it
    “If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”

    — Golda Meir

    Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.







    ברוך השם

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    Quote Originally Posted by guno View Post
    these people and the followers of that kook region should be permanently placed in mental institutions and chemically castrated, in the name of jebus of course
    You first, tree worship.
    Free speech is cool as long as it jibes with our program.

    -- The Left


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    Religion requires insanity.
    Very religious people are very insane.
    No surprise here.
    We have the intellect to imagine the finality of our own demise but do not have the sophistication to overcome our survival instinct and accept it.
    Solution? Magical thinking and childish promises of everlasting life.
    Ergo, religion.

    rac·ist
    rāsəst/noun
    a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
    Ask yourself honestly if this describes what you believe to be true.
    If the answer is yes, you are a racist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    I can't access the article as I am blocked due to the EU rules, but what makes you certain that the baby wouldn't be just as dead had she be born in a hospital? It happens more often than people acknowledge.
    I don't have any way of knowing that based on the information available, other than the fact that the baby was a premie at 32 weeks. My youngest son was a 32-week premie too, but with immediate medical support he survived.

    "Tonsfeldt found the newborn’s mother, Sarah Elaine Mitchell, in the master bedroom cradling the dead child in a blanket. As the official later recounted in a probable cause affidavit obtained by KGW8, the child’s father, Travis Lee Mitchell, was also in the room, as was Sarah’s father, Walter White. Tonsfeldt would say that when he questioned the individuals in the room about the death, the answers were “stilted and forced.” No one would make eye contact. Eventually, he learned the baby - Ginnifer — had been born around 2:55 p.m. Hours later, the baby stopped breathing, dying around 7 p.m. As Tonsfeldt examined the child, he noted Ginnifer was 3 pounds, 6 ounces. The baby had been born prematurely at 32 weeks.

    "Only then did the family tell Tonsfeldt about the twin born alongside Ginnifer. When Tonsfeldt inspected Evelyn, he told the family the surviving child was “at medical risk” and must go to the hospital. He told the family twice.

    “Thank you for your input,” Walter White replied both times, according to KGW8."

    "On Monday, Ginnifer’s parents Sarah and Travis Mitchell — 25 and 22, respectively — both pleaded guilty to criminal negligent homicide and criminal mistreatment, Clackamas County District Attorney John S. Foote announced in a statement.

    "The Mitchells are the fifth set of parents from the Followers of Christ Church to face criminal charges after failing to secure medical attention for their children in the past 9 years, according to the prosecutor. In 2009, Sarah Mitchell’s sister Shannon Hickman delivered a premature baby boy in the same room where Ginnifer died, according to the Oregonian. The child passed away eight hours after his birth, and later both Hickman and her husband were convicted of second-degree manslaughter."
    ...
    "Oregon law initially protected church members from legal consequences related to the deaths, according to KGW8. But beginning in 2008, local prosecutors began filing criminal charges against parents. That year, Raylene and Carl Brent Worthington were charged after their 15-month-old died from pneumonia and a blood infection. The father was eventually convicted of misdemeanor criminal mistreatment, according to the prosecutor’s office.

    "The death of 15-year-old Neil Beagley from a urinary tract blockage in 2008 resulted in the conviction of his parents Jeffery and Marci Beagley of criminally negligent homicide, according to authorities.

    In 2011, Rebecca and Timothy Wyland were convicted of criminal mistreatment after their daughter suffered a serious growth on her eye that resulted in permanent damage to her vision."

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    no Jack......only barbarians kill their own children......
    It's a 'Personal Choice' PMP. Keep your nose out of other people's affairs.

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