If We Want to End the Border Crisis, It’s Time to Give Trump His Wall

[dukkha]

You could think of the last week as a solid victory for the Democrats and for basic human decency. An utterly indefensible and morally foul policy of separating children from their parents is over for now. Trump backed down amid a torrent of his usual lies and refusal to take responsibility for anything. We found a line even today’s GOP would not cross (although we also found plenty who were indeed prepared to cross it).

But it is emphatically not the end of this story, not simply because there are more than 2,000 children still apart from their families, with very little hope of ever finding their parents again, but because none of the underlying reasons for this atrocity in the first place have been addressed. Nor are they likely to be addressed in the Congress today, as one of the latest GOP immigration bills staggers toward failure. Nor do the Democrats seem able, willing, or united enough to tackle the problem at its source, by finding a legislative compromise with the GOP and president, on both legal and illegal immigration. That means families in cages multiplying in the future; it means more endangered children; it means an even deeper coarsening of our moral values; it means more and more people in limbo; it means genuine refugees losing asylum and being deported back to their nightmares; and it portends even greater polarization ahead.

The reason for that is simple: The United States has not allocated the resources, political and financial, to stem the wave of illegal immigrants into this country that is now rising again, or to enable genuine asylum cases to be adjudicated fairly and expeditiously. Our political system — incapacitated by tribalism — has been incapable of addressing the intensifying problem since the Bush administration. Obama was trapped by the same impasse as Trump now is, and detained families in camps. And the problem is acute. There are almost a third of a million asylum cases pending in the system; and, as David Frum has noted, it now takes up to nine months to process a single one. We also know that the Flores settlement that bars any detention of children with their parents past 20 days has not been invalidated or legislatively fixed.

Which means to say that in less than three weeks, we will be here again, with another excruciating dilemma. Do we set up vast tent cities and camps to imprison families indefinitely, or do we simply let these families go free, and hope they show up for a future court date? Either way, we solve nothing fundamental and leave a huge incentive for those trying to enter the U.S. illegally to bring children with them when they do. And that does happen. There is fraud and trafficking and opportunism as well as valid family-based escapes from violence and persecution, and it can be hard to tell one from the other.

As in everything, Trump makes things worse. His rhetoric, his callousness, his wanton lies all make a compromise harder. It’s completely understandable that Democrats do not wish to let him off the hook in any way before November. But there’s a big conflict here if you actually want to end the suffering, or get at the real problem. If you do not want to jail kids with their parents indefinitely, or to maintain the incentive for illegal migrants to bring kids along for the harrowing ride, you need some sort of congressional action and soon. There’s something deeply wrong, it seems to me, with expressing the view that what the government is doing is barbaric and yet allowing the underlying cause of it to continue for political reasons. If that’s the case, then Trump is not the only one using kids as pawns. Chuck Schumer is too.

The Democrats need to accept that they lost the last presidential election for a reason, and that their opponent’s main campaign pledge was to tackle illegal immigration, with a wall at the southern border as the centerpiece. Completely resisting a legitimate agenda based on a clear campaign promise — well, it reminds me of the Republicans with Obamacare.

And there is clearly an adamant, persistent segment of the public that sees the crisis of illegal immigration as a vital one. They’re not alone. Cast an eye at Brexit Britain, newly populist Italy, Macron’s France, and even Merkel’s Germany as it heaves in response to mass immigration from the developing world. This is a huge force in Western politics in every country. It may be the primary one. Millions of people are on the move right now, fleeing war and poverty and persecution. The vast migration from south to north, from poverty and chaos to opportunity and order in the West may be just beginning. Climate change will surely only make it worse. Finding the right balance between reason and compassion is essential if we are not going to further tear this country apart, or witness ever more humanitarian catastrophes, or see what’s left of the West go under.

So give him his fucking wall. He won the election. He is owed this. It may never be completed; it may not work, as hoped. But it is now the only way to reassure a critical mass of Americans that mass immigration is under control, and the only way to make any progress under this president. And until the white working and middle classes are reassured, we will get nowhere. Don’t give it to him for nothing, of course. It should come with a full path to citizenship for all DACA immigrants, as in the proposed deal in January that Trump first liked and then reneged on, under Miller’s toxic influence. But it should also go bigger: a legislative fix for Flores; massive new funding for detention facilities, humane family-friendly housing, and, above all, much more money for the immigration legal system, now completely overwhelmed by asylum cases. If Democrats can show they want to deal with the humanitarian problem as a whole, and are willing to compromise on the wall, they’ll be in a much stronger position going forward than in the recent past.*
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...-his-wall.html

[dukkha]

Sullivan is a sleezy #nevrTrump, ( you can read his Trump characterizations)
but is looking at the reality that massive illegal migration continues without a wall.. fix it

[Bigdog]

Sullivan is a sleezy #nevrTrump, ( you can read his Trump characterizations)
but is looking at the reality that massive illegal migration continues without a wall.. fix it

And end the "sanctuary" States and Cities libtards use to promote and encourage illegal immigration.

[dukkha]

And end the "sanctuary" States and Cities libtards use to promote and encourage illegal immigration.

same battle different venue. However when we do eventually deport the scum,,
it can't sneak back in with a wall

[Jade Dragon]

Um, no, that just makes things worse. A wall doesn't deter anyway, so a wall would be one of the biggest wastes of a lot of money, in US history. What do you think the swift current of the Rio Grande, and arid as heck desert equates anyway? Those barriers don't stop things, and the Rio Grande is life threatening, whereas a wall is just there.

[Old Trapper]

same battle different venue. However when we do eventually deport the scum,,
it can't sneak back in with a wall

Another piece of white trash that failed to see the ones on top of the wall already built. A wall didn't work for China, just as it failed for the USSR. You can't build one high enough, or sink it deep enough, so that people won't get around it. But hey, Trump wants it, and his fools will give it to him.

[Rune]

And end the "sanctuary" States and Cities libtards use to promote and encourage illegal immigration.

By eradicating the Constitution?
Or will you amend the 10th ?

[PoliTalker]

.

NO!

If Trump wants the wall he promised us he would get the Mexicans to pay for, THEN HE NEEDS TO GET MEXICO TO PAY FOR THAT WALL!!!

Like he promised.

.

[Rune]

same battle different venue. However when we do eventually deport the scum,,
it can't sneak back in with a wall

Oh?
I know you hate facts since they drastically interphere
with your world view and your support of Russia and her agents in US government but what of the FACT that 2/3s of illegals arrive here by air?

[dukkha]

Oh?
I know you hate facts since they drastically interpreted with your world view and your support of Russia and her agents in US government but what of the FACT that 2/3s of illegals arrive here by air?

those are VISA overstays and a separate problem not illegals. Look at the Kate Stein murder,look at the thousands of illegals that are deported and sneak back over the border.

Maybe you can see the difference -but I doubt it.. still pandering the Russiaphobia huh?
In your case i give you a pass and chalk it up to continuing wilful ignorance on your part

[Bigdog]

By eradicating the Constitution?
Or will you amend the 10th ?

By reminding socialist libtards, that they are the root cause of all the border inhumanity and criminal activity.

[Bigdog]

.

NO!

If Trump wants the wall he promised us he would get the Mexicans to pay for, THEN HE NEEDS TO GET MEXICO TO PAY FOR THAT WALL!!!

Like he promised.

.

What the fuck do you care? ... you're an Open Borders advocate.

[Rune]

same battle different venue. However when we do eventually deport the scum,,
it can't sneak back in with a wall

Oh?
I know you hate facts since they drastically interphere with your world view and your support of Russia and her agents in US government but what of the FACT that 2/3s of illegals arrive here by air?

[katzgar]

You could think of the last week as a solid victory for the Democrats and for basic human decency. An utterly indefensible and morally foul policy of separating children from their parents is over for now. Trump backed down amid a torrent of his usual lies and refusal to take responsibility for anything. We found a line even today’s GOP would not cross (although we also found plenty who were indeed prepared to cross it).

But it is emphatically not the end of this story, not simply because there are more than 2,000 children still apart from their families, with very little hope of ever finding their parents again, but because none of the underlying reasons for this atrocity in the first place have been addressed. Nor are they likely to be addressed in the Congress today, as one of the latest GOP immigration bills staggers toward failure. Nor do the Democrats seem able, willing, or united enough to tackle the problem at its source, by finding a legislative compromise with the GOP and president, on both legal and illegal immigration. That means families in cages multiplying in the future; it means more endangered children; it means an even deeper coarsening of our moral values; it means more and more people in limbo; it means genuine refugees losing asylum and being deported back to their nightmares; and it portends even greater polarization ahead.

The reason for that is simple: The United States has not allocated the resources, political and financial, to stem the wave of illegal immigrants into this country that is now rising again, or to enable genuine asylum cases to be adjudicated fairly and expeditiously. Our political system — incapacitated by tribalism — has been incapable of addressing the intensifying problem since the Bush administration. Obama was trapped by the same impasse as Trump now is, and detained families in camps. And the problem is acute. There are almost a third of a million asylum cases pending in the system; and, as David Frum has noted, it now takes up to nine months to process a single one. We also know that the Flores settlement that bars any detention of children with their parents past 20 days has not been invalidated or legislatively fixed.

Which means to say that in less than three weeks, we will be here again, with another excruciating dilemma. Do we set up vast tent cities and camps to imprison families indefinitely, or do we simply let these families go free, and hope they show up for a future court date? Either way, we solve nothing fundamental and leave a huge incentive for those trying to enter the U.S. illegally to bring children with them when they do. And that does happen. There is fraud and trafficking and opportunism as well as valid family-based escapes from violence and persecution, and it can be hard to tell one from the other.

As in everything, Trump makes things worse. His rhetoric, his callousness, his wanton lies all make a compromise harder. It’s completely understandable that Democrats do not wish to let him off the hook in any way before November. But there’s a big conflict here if you actually want to end the suffering, or get at the real problem. If you do not want to jail kids with their parents indefinitely, or to maintain the incentive for illegal migrants to bring kids along for the harrowing ride, you need some sort of congressional action and soon. There’s something deeply wrong, it seems to me, with expressing the view that what the government is doing is barbaric and yet allowing the underlying cause of it to continue for political reasons. If that’s the case, then Trump is not the only one using kids as pawns. Chuck Schumer is too.

The Democrats need to accept that they lost the last presidential election for a reason, and that their opponent’s main campaign pledge was to tackle illegal immigration, with a wall at the southern border as the centerpiece. Completely resisting a legitimate agenda based on a clear campaign promise — well, it reminds me of the Republicans with Obamacare.

And there is clearly an adamant, persistent segment of the public that sees the crisis of illegal immigration as a vital one. They’re not alone. Cast an eye at Brexit Britain, newly populist Italy, Macron’s France, and even Merkel’s Germany as it heaves in response to mass immigration from the developing world. This is a huge force in Western politics in every country. It may be the primary one. Millions of people are on the move right now, fleeing war and poverty and persecution. The vast migration from south to north, from poverty and chaos to opportunity and order in the West may be just beginning. Climate change will surely only make it worse. Finding the right balance between reason and compassion is essential if we are not going to further tear this country apart, or witness ever more humanitarian catastrophes, or see what’s left of the West go under.

So give him his fucking wall. He won the election. He is owed this. It may never be completed; it may not work, as hoped. But it is now the only way to reassure a critical mass of Americans that mass immigration is under control, and the only way to make any progress under this president. And until the white working and middle classes are reassured, we will get nowhere. Don’t give it to him for nothing, of course. It should come with a full path to citizenship for all DACA immigrants, as in the proposed deal in January that Trump first liked and then reneged on, under Miller’s toxic influence. But it should also go bigger: a legislative fix for Flores; massive new funding for detention facilities, humane family-friendly housing, and, above all, much more money for the immigration legal system, now completely overwhelmed by asylum cases. If Democrats can show they want to deal with the humanitarian problem as a whole, and are willing to compromise on the wall, they’ll be in a much stronger position going forward than in the recent past.*
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...-his-wall.html

The idea that a wall will deter the deep desperation that those coming north have is absurd.

[Darth Omar]

Um, no, that just makes things worse. A wall doesn't deter anyway, so a wall would be one of the biggest wastes of a lot of money, in US history. What do you think the swift current of the Rio Grande, and arid as heck desert equates anyway? Those barriers don't stop things, and the Rio Grande is life threatening, whereas a wall is just there.

At minimum, it’s counter-intuitive to say a wall wouldn’t work lol.

If by a wall ‘not working’ you mean it fails to be an absolute barrier you’re point isn’t worth discussing. A realistic goal would be reducing illegal immigration to a manageable trickle. That would keep these inevitable moral dilemmas from coming up and allow congress to deal with something else, like infrastructure.

And there’s every reason to think a wall would do just that.