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Thread: Why do Trump voters want to live here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    I'm not partisan. I agree with many of the descriptions from both lists although they are sweeping generalizations and hyperbole. They also apply to only a certain percentage of each group and not a majority in most cases.
    Such is tribalism in politics. We ascribe the best virtues to people on our "side" and worst vices to those on the other "side". This thread is a perfect example

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    There is a body of peer reviewed research indicating that a surprisingly high percentage of rightwingers engage in scurrilous gossip. salacious slander, outright lying, and fabrication.... at frequencies and levels not seen since the movie "Mean Girls"!
    Please cite two studies from this body of research. From the research I've seen you are right but they found left-wingers have the same characteristics. If you are saying this only applies to one side you are being blinded by your partisanship. Who are the "peers" that reviewed this research?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    Such is tribalism in politics. We ascribe the best virtues to people on our "side" and worst vices to those on the other "side". This thread is a perfect example
    Unfortunately, they see this as "truth" rather than ideological bias. And it affects our objective reality--like a disputed call in a sporting event--we all think the ruling should favor our team. And if our team loses, it was because it was rigged in their favor.

    Given a set of policy choices people choose their preference but will then change that preference if they learn their party favors the other preference. My conservative friends would never favor tariffs until Trump proposed them.

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    Hello Bourbon,

    I've never 'groaned' anybody, but this Thread gave me the urge to do it for the first time, for your OP.

    This is so petty.

    It sinks to the level of 'Love It Or Leave It.'

    We don't want half the nation leaving.

    We don't want 25% of the nation leaving.

    What we need to do is to find a way to coexist.

    We need more respect and understanding, more tolerance, more people who understand that freedom includes freedom of others to do things you disagree with, and your freedom to disagree with it.

    We need everybody in this country, even those we might find undesirable. We don't have to agree with them but we do need to support their freedom to believe anything they want to. If we think otherwise, it falls upon us to convincingly express why.

    Diversity Makes America Great!
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    It also makes you wonder why liberals stay: [my comments]

    They want higher taxes [to pay down the debt we are all responsible for, instead of ignoring it]
    They want more government regulations [where they are needed to protect people]
    They think America is run by aristocrats and plutocrats [because it is true]
    They hate wealthy, successful people [false accusation]
    They don't like religious Americans [false accusation]
    They want more social welfare programs and advocate for more socialism [because it is the right thing to do]
    They don't like capitalism and corporations [false accusation - more like they don't like crony capitalism or GREEDY corporations]
    They want to restrict hate speech [false accusation]
    They don't like the military [false accusation]
    They think don't like American history unless it is being critical [false accusation]
    They are racist against white people and can't wait for the older ones to die off [false accusation]
    They like democracy if we all vote Democratic but think people are idiots if they do not [if they all voted, Republicans would be out of power]
    They think those not successful must be victims of oppression [false accusation, but it should be noted that oppression does exist]
    Want to restrict how much people can make though taxation or salary limits[Taxation does not limit possible earnings. There is merit to limitations on executive pay in relation to a multiple of average worker pay -if the executive wants to earn more, he should guide his company to earn more and share it with those workers who make that possible]
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello ThatOwlWoman,

    Flash:
    "Deflection to keep from answering my questions. I left one item off my list your post illustrates: you look down upon those who voted differently than you and think they are uneducated and bigoted. A way to look down upon others."
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Excuse me, but I'm not the one who posted a long laundry list of the sins of the other side. You did that. Apparently *you* are the one looking down on those who voted differently than you. *You* think that all (D) voters believe all the negative attributes that you assigned to us. Sweeping generalizations of this type belong to those who are incapable of seeing beyond their own noses; they belong to those who are fearful, who find critical thinking and nuance difficult. They belong mostly to those on the right. Imagine that.
    I saw nothing disparaging about what Flash posted.

    And instead of addressing his observations individually, you've merely attacked Flash personally.

    If you disagree with what he said (which was presented in a manner of civil discourse,) then you should express why.

    Saying things about Flash doesn't indicate why you disagree with him.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello ThatOwlWoman,

    Flash:
    "It is amusing you reject my list but apparently accept the original post concerning conservatives. Our partisanship often distorts our reality."
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
    Yours certainly does.
    And yours doesn't?

    Flash is correct. This happens to all of us, to varying extents, even if we are aware of it and try to avoid it.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Look at the posts from Fentoine Lum as representative of most of my list.
    But we both know generalizations of an entire group of people based on one individual are fought with misperceptions.

    Stereotyping is all too common, and a huge problem in the USA. It exists on both sides, but I see it as far worse on the right, mostly due to hate-peddlers on conservative radio and such.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Flash,
    Politalker,

    I understand why liberals feel this way. I was just describing their dissatisfaction with current U. S. politics, not arguing the pros and cons. Your explanations defending those policy views are essentially agreeing with my (exaggerated) descriptions. Those you call false accusations are not false as much as they only apply to a minority of liberals. For example, if you don't think many/some are racist against white people just read a small number of the posts on this forum calling white (especially white males) racist, threads about white privilege, etc. Another example: many colleges have speech codes that prohibit hate speech.

    Are there any of the descriptions in the original post you disagree with?
    Last edited by Flash; 06-23-2018 at 01:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Flash,



    But we both know generalizations of an entire group of people based on one individual are fought with misperceptions.

    Stereotyping is all too common, and a huge problem in the USA. It exists on both sides, but I see it as far worse on the right, mostly due to hate-peddlers on conservative radio and such.
    Of course. I said my list was exaggerated, broad generalizations, and hyperbole. It was written that way to match the original post about conservatives. It stated, for example, conservatives do not like brown or black people--certainly as huge a problem and stereotyping as my list. (

    I know conservatives who stereotype minorities and I have known many liberal academics with views like Fentoine Lum. I agree about right wing radio, but if you listen to left-wing radio you hear all the same things (only the names are different). Their morals change based on the issue. If one party is filibustering to stop some action it is a terrible tool thwarting the majority unless their side is filibustering and then it is preventing evil.

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Unfortunately, they see this as "truth" rather than ideological bias. And it affects our objective reality--like a disputed call in a sporting event--we all think the ruling should favor our team. And if our team loses, it was because it was rigged in their favor.

    Given a set of policy choices people choose their preference but will then change that preference if they learn their party favors the other preference. My conservative friends would never favor tariffs until Trump proposed them.
    President Trump is trying to boss the other nations around with this trade war. He doesn't care how many people get hurt along the way. The tariffs will lose popularity quickly once it is seen that exports drop, sales drop, stock values drop and jobs are lost. A trade war can be likened to a bleeding contest. Each contestant cuts himself and beings to bleed. The nation that is still standing after others fall is declared the 'winner,' but everyone loses. Nobody really wins a trade war. But Trump himself will be fine. He's got plenty of money. He doesn't need a job. He doesn't care about the people whose lives will be impacted by the trade war. He doesn't care now. He may change his outlook when our opponents in the trade war specifically target industries with the types of jobs that are likely to be Trump supporters.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Hello Flash,

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Politalker,

    I understand why liberals feel this way. I was just describing their dissatisfaction with current U. S. politics, not arguing the pros and cons. Your explanations defending those policy views are essentially agreeing with my (exaggerated) descriptions. Those you call false accusations are not false as much as they only apply to a minority of liberals. For example, if you don't think many/some are racist against white people just read a small number of the posts on this forum calling white (especially white males) racist, threads about white privilege, etc. Another example: many colleges have speech codes that prohibit hate speech.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash View Post
    Are there any of the descriptions in the original post you disagree with?
    Yes.

    They Hate everything that makes America, America. [too generalized to quantify]

    They Hate American democracy for anyone but themselves. [Only applies to the Basket Of Deplorables, about half of his supporters]

    They want everything their way and no way for anyone not like them. [Only applies to the Basket Of Deplorables, about half of his supporters]

    They Hate the free press. [Only applies to the Basket Of Deplorables, about half of his supporters]

    They Hate the statue of liberty and what it stands for. [I disagree, never heard any of them say this]

    They Hate protesters. [Only applies to the Basket Of Deplorables, about half of his supporters]

    They Hate Black people. [Only applies to the racists, however large that percentage is - nearly as large as the Basket Of Deplorables, I presume]

    They Hate Brown People [Only applies to the racists, however large that percentage is - nearly as large as the Basket Of Deplorables, I presume]

    They Hate gay people. [Only applies to the Basket Of Deplorables, about half of his supporters]

    They like dictators like Putin better than our politicians. [No, I don't think so. It is Trump himself who envies any powerful figure who is not mocked]

    Trump is drawn, like a moth to a flame, toward power. He can't have enough power. His thirst for power is unquenchable. He loves power. He loves being bossy and demanding and the ability to order people around. He can't stand it when he his power to order people around or things to happen is limited. Such as the Muslim ban.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bourbon View Post
    They Hate everything that makes America, America.

    They Hate American democracy for anyone but themselves.

    They want everything their way and no way for anyone not like them.


    They Hate the free press.

    They Hate the statue of liberty and what it stands for.

    They Hate protesters.

    They Hate Black people.

    They Hate Brown People

    They Hate gay people.

    They like dictators like Putin better than our politicians.

    One of the great things about America is you are free to leave anytime you want. They will not get what they want here, because the People they HATE aren't going anywhere. There are other countries where they could find what they want.

    If they are so unhappy here, Why stay?

    Take your Fucking Hateful Ass to RUSSIA ...

    That describes democrats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Flash,

    They Hate American democracy for anyone but themselves. [Only applies to the Basket Of Deplorables, about half of his supporters]
    They want everything their way and no way for anyone not like them. [Only applies to the Basket Of Deplorables, about half of his supporters]
    They Hate the free press. [Only applies to the Basket Of Deplorables, about half of his supporters]
    They Hate protesters. [Only applies to the Basket Of Deplorables, about half of his supporters]
    If, by basket of deplorables, you mean white working class voters without a college degree, your percentage is much too high. It is not nearly half of his supporters. Basically, he won every group of whites, not just working class. His largest gains came from 2012 Obama voters + 2012 nonvoters. Were these people deplorables when they voted for Obama in 2012? About 37% of Trump voters were whites without a college degree, but many of these are not working class based on income, some college, and occupation.

    "Trump won whites making less than $50,000 by 20 points, whites making $50,000 to $99,999 by 28 points, and whites making $100,000 or more by 14 points. This shows that Trump assembled a broad white coalition that ran the gamut from Joe the Dishwasher to Joe the Plumber to Joe the Banker. So when white pundits cast the elevation of Trump as the handiwork of an inscrutable white working class, they are being too modest, declining to claim credit for their own economic class. Trump’s dominance among whites across class lines is of a piece with his larger dominance across nearly every white demographic. Trump won white women (+9) and white men (+31). He won white people with college degrees (+3) and white people without them (+37). He won whites ages 18–29 (+4), 30–44 (+17), 45–64 (+28), and 65 and older (+19). Trump won whites in midwestern Illinois (+11), whites in mid-Atlantic New Jersey (+12), and whites in the Sun Belt’s New Mexico (+5)

    But the researchers also found that voters in their study who supported Trump generally had a higher mean household income ($81,898) than those who did not ($77,046). Those who approved of Trump were “less likely to be unemployed and less likely to be employed part-time” than those who did not"

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...utm_source=twb.

    https://www.sociologicalscience.com/...5_234to245.pdf

    [I know some posters will attack me as a Trump supporter, but I am just correcting a lot of the bigoted, stereotypical description of Trump voters]

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    doesn't Burbon know that Trump is making America great again?.....

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