“Obama did it too”

[Jarod]

From a friend...

A friend asked me a question about the current immigration policy and I decided to post the answer publicly.... Here’s the difference between previous immigration policy and today’s immigration policy: the laws have remained largely the same. It has always been a crime to enter the country illegally or overstay a visa, and it has always been punishable by jail time. However, it used to be that when someone got caught entering the country illegally with a minor child, or when they were caught here and happened to have a minor child, the government had the good sense to simply expel them together with their kid(s). However, even back then during the “free wheeling” GWB administration, parents were still jailed and separated from their children. I personally represented a woman who got caught in the country illegally for the third time. She had a six-month-old baby when she was arrested, and because she was a repeat offender the government had no problem arresting her and putting her child in foster care. Luckily, we were able to find a relative and the child did not have to go stay with a third-party. But the government has always been separating parents from children in the immigration context, just under much more limited circumstances than today. This made good sense on a number of levels: most appealing to conservatives was that it made good fiscal sense because housing infants or paying a foster care system to take them (and yes they have to pay to place them in state foster care) is really expensive.

The difference today is that the government has decided to abandon good sense and instead relies on the wooden application of a completely inflexible rule, requiring that every illegal immigrant be jailed at all times. This is fiscally ridiculous, and also morally ridiculous. The argument that it is a deterrent is similarly stupid, because people who try to get into this country illegally aren’t just coming to make an extra $5 per hour — they’re coming because they feel they have to in order to live. If you had a 50% chance that you and your family were going to die versus a 50% chance that you were going to be arrested and separated from your kid, which one would you take? The argument that it is just “enforcing the law“ is also ridiculous. There has always been room for discretion in the application of justice because not every case is the same, not every person is the same, and circumstances are never the same. This is why courts are (slowly) moving away from mandatory minimum sentences and like. To be clear, the law does not require the government to jail anyone in the country illegally, nor does it require the government to separate parents from children while those parents are awaiting deportation. Finally, the argument that we are “finally enforcing the law“ is ridiculous because as I pointed out, the government has always enforced immigration law, just in a (relatively) more measured, sane manner.

Everyone in the administration who lobs an excuse that they are just enforcing the law, or that there is no policy to separate parents from children, is just lying to you or criminally stupid. Say what you want about the head of homeland security and the attorney general, but I don’t think they are stupid. They are deliberately parsing words and telling half of the story in order to placate president man child and help him get his very expensive, likely ineffective wall because that is the moronic beachhead on which he and his racist supporters have decided to land. That is the main negotiating point when they talk about “fixing the law.” They aren’t talking about fixing anything, they’re talking about adding a trillion dollar boondoggle to the budget. Immigration law is not broken, or it is at least not broken because it favors immigrants. If anything, it’s broken because it favors the government too much.

Cliff Notes version: The government has always had the ability to separate parents from children, it was never required to do so, it used to use a measure of good sense before deciding to do so, and we no longer live in the age of good sense. Also, everything sucks. The end.

[volsrock]

Of the 12,000 illegal children, 10,000 didn’t come with Mom or Dad. That means 84% were sent ALONE! Their loving parents paid smugglers and sent them on journey surrounded by who knows what to a foreign country, not to escape an encroaching war or famine but to use them as a grappling hook shot into America which can afterwards be used to pull themselves into the country! Like an invading army tying children to ropes and hurling them over the parapets!

[Bourbon]

Yes, the Obama-administration put immigrant children in cages. BY ACCIDENT.

https://www.businessinsider.de/migra...18-5?r=US&IR=T

He explained that the photos were taken in 2014, when the Obama administration faced "an influx of unaccompanied minors who showed up at the border, fleeing violence from Central America."

He added that the pictures had been taken while the government was trying to "move those children out of those shelters as fast as humanly possible and connect them with their parents, most of whom were already in the United States."

...

"In 2014, we saw an enormous spike compared to what usually happens every year, in the number of kids crossing alone into the United States," she said. "And we didn't have enough shelter facilities, because we had a huge increase, so kids ended up piling up in Border Patrol lock-ups, which are no places for children."

She continued:

"What the Obama administration did, which is what the law requires, is to find shelter facilities for those kids, which were put together by the Department of Health and Human Services. So the goal was to get kids out of the Border Patrol, into proper care by HHS, and then HHS is supposed to release them to the least restrictive setting, and in more than 80% of the cases, that was their parents who were already in the United States."

...

Though the photos are nearly identical to those from 2014, there is one key difference between them: the 2014 photos showed only children who arrived at the border unaccompanied. The 2018 photos also show families that have been separated from one another.

That difference is significant — while unaccompanied children in 2014 knew what to expect when they arrived at the border and were taken to the holding facilities, the children who have been separated from their parents are often much younger, and had not expected to be taken away from their families.




So that's unaccompanied minors. Older children.

Temporarily housed in cells where the border-patrol keeps arrested adults.

Because nothing else was available on short notice.

And these children were quickly transfered to HHS-shelters and eventually their parents.



That's NOT comparable to intentionally separating small children from their parents and then keeping them permanently in internment camps.

[Getin the ring]

Yes, the Obama-administration put immigrant children in cages. BY ACCIDENT.

[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana]https://www.businessinsider.de/migra...18-5?r=US&IR=T

Because nothing else was available on short notice.

put them in cages "by accident"

I like it,
how does that work? Nut-bag?

[Bourbon]

put them in cages "by accident"

I like it,
how does that work? Nut-bag?

Who's the one taking the HEAT NOW ...

Try again ... your deflection isn't working ....

[Getin the ring]

My deflection?

Russian Nothing Burger ran out of steam, so who doesn't want to talk about that anymore? CNN and you nut-bags that's who.

So lets move on to pictures of crying babies being yanked from Momma

[Bourbon]

My deflection?

Russian Nothing Burger ran out of steam, so who doesn't want to talk about that anymore? CNN and you nut-bags that's who.

So lets move on to pictures of crying babies being yanked from Momma

Try Again ...


TRUMP’S RUSSIA COVER-UP BY THE NUMBERS – 80+ CONTACTS WITH RUSSIA-LINKED OPERATIVES

In an interview with the Washington Post, Roger Stone revealed that he met with a Russian national named Henry Greenberg who Stone says promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton in late May 2016. Greenberg allegedly wanted Trump to pay $2 million for the information, but Stone claims that he rejected the offer. Michael Caputo, a Trump campaign official, originally connected Stone and Greenberg after Caputo spoke with Greenberg over the phone in May 2016. Stone and Caputo were reportedly asked about the meeting by prosecutors from the Special Counsel’s office, and now claim that they were the targets of a setup by U.S. law enforcement officials. Although Greenberg has worked with the FBI in the past, he indicated that he stopped working with them in 2013. Greenberg denied several of Stone and Caputo’s allegations.

https://themoscowproject.org/explainers/trumps-russia-cover-up-by-the-numbers-70-contacts-with-russia-linked-operatives/

[Micawber]

Republicans are incapable of living in the moment on anything. That is because everthing done now is indefensible.
Republicans should be banned entirely from the "current events" forum. Their responses should be sent to a spam folder
automatically called "But but Hillary!!!!!!!!!"

[canceled.2021.1]

From a friend...

A friend asked me a question about the current immigration policy and I decided to post the answer publicly.... Here’s the difference between previous immigration policy and today’s immigration policy: the laws have remained largely the same. It has always been a crime to enter the country illegally or overstay a visa, and it has always been punishable by jail time. However, it used to be that when someone got caught entering the country illegally with a minor child, or when they were caught here and happened to have a minor child, the government had the good sense to simply expel them together with their kid(s). However, even back then during the “free wheeling” GWB administration, parents were still jailed and separated from their children. I personally represented a woman who got caught in the country illegally for the third time. She had a six-month-old baby when she was arrested, and because she was a repeat offender the government had no problem arresting her and putting her child in foster care. Luckily, we were able to find a relative and the child did not have to go stay with a third-party. But the government has always been separating parents from children in the immigration context, just under much more limited circumstances than today. This made good sense on a number of levels: most appealing to conservatives was that it made good fiscal sense because housing infants or paying a foster care system to take them (and yes they have to pay to place them in state foster care) is really expensive.

The difference today is that the government has decided to abandon good sense and instead relies on the wooden application of a completely inflexible rule, requiring that every illegal immigrant be jailed at all times. This is fiscally ridiculous, and also morally ridiculous. The argument that it is a deterrent is similarly stupid, because people who try to get into this country illegally aren’t just coming to make an extra $5 per hour — they’re coming because they feel they have to in order to live. If you had a 50% chance that you and your family were going to die versus a 50% chance that you were going to be arrested and separated from your kid, which one would you take? The argument that it is just “enforcing the law“ is also ridiculous. There has always been room for discretion in the application of justice because not every case is the same, not every person is the same, and circumstances are never the same. This is why courts are (slowly) moving away from mandatory minimum sentences and like. To be clear, the law does not require the government to jail anyone in the country illegally, nor does it require the government to separate parents from children while those parents are awaiting deportation. Finally, the argument that we are “finally enforcing the law“ is ridiculous because as I pointed out, the government has always enforced immigration law, just in a (relatively) more measured, sane manner.

Everyone in the administration who lobs an excuse that they are just enforcing the law, or that there is no policy to separate parents from children, is just lying to you or criminally stupid. Say what you want about the head of homeland security and the attorney general, but I don’t think they are stupid. They are deliberately parsing words and telling half of the story in order to placate president man child and help him get his very expensive, likely ineffective wall because that is the moronic beachhead on which he and his racist supporters have decided to land. That is the main negotiating point when they talk about “fixing the law.” They aren’t talking about fixing anything, they’re talking about adding a trillion dollar boondoggle to the budget. Immigration law is not broken, or it is at least not broken because it favors immigrants. If anything, it’s broken because it favors the government too much.

Cliff Notes version: The government has always had the ability to separate parents from children, it was never required to do so, it used to use a measure of good sense before deciding to do so, and we no longer live in the age of good sense. Also, everything sucks. The end.

Tough titties. The parents are making a decision and dealing with the consequences.

You want them to reinstitute catch and release GayRod.

Nice try

[Bourbon]

Tough titties. The parents are making a decision and dealing with the consequences.

You want them to reinstitute catch and release GayRod.

Nice try

I got an idea ... why don't you start a thread and go play with yourself in the corner ....

[Jarod]

Of the 12,000 illegal children, 10,000 didn’t come with Mom or Dad. That means 84% were sent ALONE! Their loving parents paid smugglers and sent them on journey surrounded by who knows what to a foreign country, not to escape an encroaching war or famine but to use them as a grappling hook shot into America which can afterwards be used to pull themselves into the country! Like an invading army tying children to ropes and hurling them over the parapets!

We are not talking about the ones who came alone, although I don’t think they should be put in detention, they should be put in foster care Or with relatives. But I could understand why you wanted to shift the subject.

[Jarod]

Tough titties. The parents are making a decision and dealing with the consequences.

You want them to reinstitute catch and release GayRod.

Nice try

The parents are making a decision, and the children are dealing with the consequences. These toddlers made no decision to be treated like this by the American government.

[SmarterthanYou]

We are not talking about the ones who came alone, although I don’t think they should be put in detention, they should be put in foster care Or with relatives. But I could understand why you wanted to shift the subject.

like when bill clinton sent in a heavily armed tactical team to kidnap Elian Gonzalez to send him back to Cuba instead of staying with relatives? or is that shifting the subject away from your faux outrage?

[Jarod]

like when bill clinton sent in a heavily armed tactical team to kidnap Elian Gonzalez to send him back to Cuba instead of staying with relatives? or is that shifting the subject away from your faux outrage?

You mean to release him to his FATHER?

[Jarod]

If my wife’s family were refusing to give me my kid after a court order I’d want the government to help me force the kidnappers to release them.