Krugman on the fall of the American empire

[sear]

By the end of World War II, we and our British allies had in effect conquered a large part of the world. We could have become permanent occupiers, and/or installed subservient puppet governments, the way the Soviet Union did in Eastern Europe. And yes, we did do that in some developing countries; our history with, say, Iran is not at all pretty.

But what we mainly did instead was help defeated enemies get back on their feet, establishing democratic regimes that shared our core values and became allies in protecting those values. ...

The U.S. government is, as a matter of policy, literally ripping children from the arms of their parents and putting them in fenced enclosures (which officials insist aren’t cages, oh no). ...

So all the things happening now are of a piece. Committing atrocities at the border, attacking the domestic rule of law, insulting democratic leaders while praising thugs, and breaking up trade agreements are all about ending American exceptionalism, turning our back on the ideals that made us different from other powerful nations.

And rejecting our ideals won’t make us stronger; it will make us weaker. We were the leader of the free world, a moral as well as financial and military force. But we’re throwing all that away.

What’s more, it won’t even serve our self-interest. America isn’t nearly as dominant a power as it was 70 years ago; Trump is delusional if he thinks that other countries will back down ...

So Trump isn’t making America great again; he’s trashing the things that made us great ... *

What is the essence of the problem here?
- Have we forgotten our founding principles?

- Xenophobia?

- Electoral college? (Trump lost the vote, gained the office)

WHAT IS WRONG HERE?

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO FIX IT?

Stephen Colbert's comment about the caged children:
"... they're not cages, they're pens.
We're not treating these kids like zoo animals.
We're treating them like farm animals." 18/06/18

* Source of Krugman article quoted above:
NYT.com

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/o...ol-left-region
note: NePR Joe Donohue recommends this Krugman article

[dukkha]

a whole lot of conflated garbage in that OP. "Kids in cages" -ya I get the outrage,
even though no one else has any solutions to how to prosecute illegal entry ( build the wall)

as to trade agreements -they are being re-negotiated, or in the EU and China's case being pressured to
open markets and reduce ( eliminate/) tariffs.

as to American exceptionalism...I haven't seen Trump start any wars in Iraq ( Bush) or Libya ( Obama) yet.

[tsuke]

"america isnt as powerful now as it was 70 years ago"

perhaps it was some of the policies we implemented in the meantime?

[Irish Exit]

What is the essence of the problem here?
- Have we forgotten our founding principles?

- Xenophobia?

Someone should remind Mr. K that our founding principles involved the 3/5ths compromise

[Frank Apisa]

I can only hope NOTHING ever makes me stoop so low as American conservatives are now stooping...

...in defense of anything.

But for them to be doing it is defense of the disgusting Donald Trump and his Brown Shirts...is the edge of insanity.

We are the generation that has given up on the ideals that formed our birth.

AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...Donald Trump SUPPORTERS...

...you sicken me and should sicken anyone with a sense of decency.

[canceled.2021.1]

By the end of World War II, we and our British allies had in effect conquered a large part of the world. We could have become permanent occupiers, and/or installed subservient puppet governments, the way the Soviet Union did in Eastern Europe. And yes, we did do that in some developing countries; our history with, say, Iran is not at all pretty.

But what we mainly did instead was help defeated enemies get back on their feet, establishing democratic regimes that shared our core values and became allies in protecting those values. ...

The U.S. government is, as a matter of policy, literally ripping children from the arms of their parents and putting them in fenced enclosures (which officials insist aren’t cages, oh no). ...

So all the things happening now are of a piece. Committing atrocities at the border, attacking the domestic rule of law, insulting democratic leaders while praising thugs, and breaking up trade agreements are all about ending American exceptionalism, turning our back on the ideals that made us different from other powerful nations.

And rejecting our ideals won’t make us stronger; it will make us weaker. We were the leader of the free world, a moral as well as financial and military force. But we’re throwing all that away.

What’s more, it won’t even serve our self-interest. America isn’t nearly as dominant a power as it was 70 years ago; Trump is delusional if he thinks that other countries will back down ...

So Trump isn’t making America great again; he’s trashing the things that made us great ... *

What is the essence of the problem here?
- Have we forgotten our founding principles?

- Xenophobia?

- Electoral college? (Trump lost the vote, gained the office)

WHAT IS WRONG HERE?

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO FIX IT?

Stephen Colbert's comment about the caged children:
"... they're not cages, they're pens.
We're not treating these kids like zoo animals.
We're treating them like farm animals." 18/06/18

* Source of Krugman article quoted above:
NYT.com

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/o...ol-left-region
note: NePR Joe Donohue recommends this Krugman article

I didn't know that there was anyone who actually took the partisan hack Paul Krugman seriously anymore

[Minister of Truth]

Someone should remind Mr. K that our founding principles involved the 3/5ths compromise

The south wanted 1.0, so, 3/5 was far preferable at the time. It still won Jefferson the election over Adams, though.

[Cancel 2018.1]

I can only hope NOTHING ever makes me stoop so low as American conservatives are now stooping...

...in defense of anything.

But for them to be doing it is defense of the disgusting Donald Trump and his Brown Shirts...is the edge of insanity.

We are the generation that has given up on the ideals that formed our birth.

AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES...Donald Trump SUPPORTERS...

...you sicken me and should sicken anyone with a sense of decency.

I can't conceive how anyone of any decency would care to play a round of golf with you.

[Cancel 2018.2]

When Obama was president democrats didn't care.... Going so far as to post photos from the Obama era and trying to blame Trump.

Democrats are morally bankrupt.

Democrats are a disease. They only care about things (well not really) when a republican is in the WH.

[Superfreak]

By the end of World War II, we and our British allies had in effect conquered a large part of the world. We could have become permanent occupiers, and/or installed subservient puppet governments, the way the Soviet Union did in Eastern Europe. And yes, we did do that in some developing countries; our history with, say, Iran is not at all pretty.

But what we mainly did instead was help defeated enemies get back on their feet, establishing democratic regimes that shared our core values and became allies in protecting those values. ...

The U.S. government is, as a matter of policy, literally ripping children from the arms of their parents and putting them in fenced enclosures (which officials insist aren’t cages, oh no). ...

So all the things happening now are of a piece. Committing atrocities at the border, attacking the domestic rule of law, insulting democratic leaders while praising thugs, and breaking up trade agreements are all about ending American exceptionalism, turning our back on the ideals that made us different from other powerful nations.

And rejecting our ideals won’t make us stronger; it will make us weaker. We were the leader of the free world, a moral as well as financial and military force. But we’re throwing all that away.

What’s more, it won’t even serve our self-interest. America isn’t nearly as dominant a power as it was 70 years ago; Trump is delusional if he thinks that other countries will back down ...

So Trump isn’t making America great again; he’s trashing the things that made us great ... *

What is the essence of the problem here?
- Have we forgotten our founding principles?

- Xenophobia?

- Electoral college? (Trump lost the vote, gained the office)

WHAT IS WRONG HERE?

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO FIX IT?

Stephen Colbert's comment about the caged children:
"... they're not cages, they're pens.
We're not treating these kids like zoo animals.
We're treating them like farm animals." 18/06/18

* Source of Krugman article quoted above:
NYT.com

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/18/o...ol-left-region
note: NePR Joe Donohue recommends this Krugman article

AS usual, Krugman proves he is nothing more than a partisan hack.

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...erance-asylum/

[sear]

"I can only hope NOTHING ever makes me stoop so low as American conservatives are now stooping..." FA #5

The politician and bureaucrats responsible for implementing this policy are NOT political conservatives.

"... the magnificently misnamed "neo-conservatives", are the most radical people in this town [Washington DC]" George Will / ABC-TV This Week July 16, 2006

"I didn't know that there was anyone who actually took the partisan hack Paul Krugman seriously anymore" IA #6

That's an ad hom dismissal, not a logical refutation.

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. -- Plato

When you have anything of substance to contribute, please do.

" I Love America " #6

No you don't. Those that love the United States of America do so for a reason.
Your #6 is conspicuously vacant of reason.

" Snowflake Melter " #6

A hero in your own mind. You're a name-caller.

"It still won Jefferson the election over Adams, though." T #7

Was that the most drawn out presidential election in U.S. history?
If so I'd hardly consider it decisive.

Y #9
Please post one specific example. So far your number #9 is an unsubstantiated allegation.

Sf #10
Yet more unsubstantiated name-calling.
Yours is dismissal, not logical refutation.
If you had a logical reason, you'd have posted it.
You don't. You didn't.
Thanks for confirming Krugman's validity.

[Frank Apisa]

I can't conceive how anyone of any decency would care to play a round of golf with you.

You are entitled to that gratuitous insult.

You do not know me...or anything about how I am on a golf course. I do know what people like you are here in this forum...and you people are loathsome.

I can tell you that the scum representing American conservatism here in this forum...DOES NOT REPRESENT most of the ones I know on the outside.

But, Aloysious, you certainly have the right to be part of the reprehensible right wing nut cases here.

[sear]

"I can tell you that the scum representing American conservatism here in this forum...DOES NOT REPRESENT most of the ones I know on the outside." FA #12

Please post a quotation from a posting member that you consider in this category. Then please explain why you favor such poster with the appellation "conservative". Good luck w/ that.

[Legion]

I didn't know that there was anyone who actually took the partisan hack Paul Krugman seriously anymore

Liberals are prepared to believe anyone they think is anti-Trump, apparently.

[Cancel 2018.1]

But, Aloysious, you certainly have the right to be part of the reprehensible right wing nut cases here.

The common and typical misconception of the far left on this board. I'm a liberal.

Classical liberalism
Classical liberalism is a political philosophy and ideology belonging to liberalism in which primary emphasis is placed on securing the freedom of the individual by limiting the power of the government.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/c...liberalism.htm