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Thread: Paradox for Conservatives

  1. #181 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Bourbon,



    Those who use the Bible to justify atrocities demonstrate they don't get the meaning of it.

    What if Jesus actually meant what he said? There would be far fewer Christians in the USA, and presumably elsewhere.

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    Another thread abandoned by JarredHead. Anyone else notice he starts this moronic nonsense then runs away?

    "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."


    A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
    Author: Booker T. Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Unless you just can't stand the idea of "ni**ers" teaching white kids.


    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Address the topic, not other posters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micawber View Post
    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hi...n-and-a-woman/

    Not quite. You need to go back to 2000 to get a man woman only position from her, then 2007 she voiced support for
    civil unions, then in 2013 gay marriage. So her track appears to be a clear case of finger to the wind.

    Hatred for Hillary isn't issue based, it is the result of a concerted effort to destroy her by using propaganda by Limbaugh,
    Fox and other assorted far right mouthpieces. I've always found very little from opponents of Hillary to be fact based
    almost entirely emotional argument. I've never understood it, since she so carefully positions herself to be "mainstream"
    That was my point. She did not favor same sex marriage in 2012. My post said anything about hatred or anything negative toward Hillary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    There is nothing vague about it. It's the definition.

    I provided examples. What you are demanding is not definitions or examples but certainty. I can't provide that and never claimed otherwise.

    Natural rights are an argument for certain social norms. I don't believe they have changed much, they simply unfold in new ways as things change and the laws catch up.

    Those bigots don't believe in natural rights. They are fascist who believe might makes right. So, apparently, they agree with you on that.

    I am an atheist. I don't worship anything. That does not mean I must reject the idea that some actions are moral and others immoral.
    Some actions are moral. Some are not. You’ll just never get agreement on what those are. Nothing universal about it.

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    The following formerly posted by TD #182



    Oh yes TD #182.
    Indisputably so!
    The standard of living under the governance of ISIL is clearly superior to hell-hole we're subjected to under the governance of our Republican lead federal government.

    Thank you again for your inspiring reminder. ALLAH BE PRAISED !!
    "It should be obvious to anyone why conservatives and libertarians should be against Trump. He has no grounding in belief. No core philosophy. No morals. No loyalty. No curiosity. No empathy and no understanding. He demands personal loyalty and not loyalty to the nation. His only core belief is in his own superiority to everyone else. His only want is exercise more and more personal power." smb / purveyor of fact 18/03/18

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    Quote Originally Posted by domer76 View Post
    Some actions are moral. Some are not. You’ll just never get agreement on what those are. Nothing universal about it.
    No one said everyone would agree with all moral principles. That's not what it means to be universal.

    To say the rights (it's not a complete moral code judging every action) are universal means that the rights exist everywhere. It's not conditional on place.

    Do you agree when Donald rejects natural rights and the notion that some things are universally wrong by saying, "I believe it's a rough situation over there. It's rough in a lot of places, by the way, not just there." A person who believes in natural rights or that some things are universally wrong does not hesitate to condemn this nonsense, but based on your unwillingness to accept such claims you must concede he has a point.
    Last edited by Timshel; 06-20-2018 at 04:39 AM.
    Leviticus 19:33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not do him wrong. 34 The stranger that sojourneth with you shall be unto you as the homeborn among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

  9. #187 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by sear View Post
    The standard of living under the governance of ISIL is clearly superior to hell-hole we're subjected to under the governance of our Republican lead federal government.

    Thank you again for your inspiring reminder. ALLAH BE PRAISED !!
    I just want to highlight the stupidity of this post and alert everyone to how the left actually thinks. This is the danger we all face and the moronic ignorance we confront with the Democratic Party of the Jackass and leftist FAKE media in this country.

    Any questions?
    "When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."


    A lie doesn't become the truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good just because it is accepted by a majority.
    Author: Booker T. Washington



    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Unless you just can't stand the idea of "ni**ers" teaching white kids.


    Quote Originally Posted by AProudLefty View Post
    Address the topic, not other posters.

  10. #188 | Top
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    Inalienable God Given Rights given to mankind by our CREATOR.
    4,487

    18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally
    44 U.S.C. 2202 - The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.


    LOCK HIM UP!

  11. #189 | Top
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    Quote Originally Posted by sear



    "The standard of living under the governance of ISIL is clearly superior to hell-hole we're subjected to under the governance of our Republican lead federal government.
    Thank you again for your inspiring reminder. ALLAH BE PRAISED !!" sear

    "I just want to highlight the stupidity of this post and alert everyone to how the left actually thinks. This is the danger we all face and the moronic ignorance we confront with the Democratic Party of the Jackass and leftist FAKE media in this country.

    Any questions?" TD #187
    Question #one:
    Do you suppose you'll ever become intelligent enough, and well educated enough to fathom the insightful utility of satire?

    Question #two:
    Will you ever become s a v v y enough to understand that not everyone that does not toe the Republican line is either ignorant, or Democrat? I'm more conservative than you. You're just not smart enough to understand that.
    So I'll spell it out for you.

    The principles I defend are those enshrined in an 18th Century Founding document: TJ/DOI. Equality under law may be a cause championed by liberals and Democrats. We conservatives welcome them to our cause. But your fondness for authoritarianism is conspicuous, and hypocritical.

    You DO want authoritarian government to prevent women from exercising their medical reproductive rights. BUT !!

    You do NOT want government to impose even modest restrictions on firearms.

    Hypocrite !
    "It should be obvious to anyone why conservatives and libertarians should be against Trump. He has no grounding in belief. No core philosophy. No morals. No loyalty. No curiosity. No empathy and no understanding. He demands personal loyalty and not loyalty to the nation. His only core belief is in his own superiority to everyone else. His only want is exercise more and more personal power." smb / purveyor of fact 18/03/18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    No one said everyone would agree with all moral principles. That's not what it means to be universal.

    To say the rights (it's not a complete moral code judging every action) are universal means that the rights exist everywhere. It's not conditional on place.

    Do you agree when Donald rejects natural rights and the notion that some things are universally wrong by saying, "I believe it's a rough situation over there. It's rough in a lot of places, by the way, not just there." A person who believes in natural rights or that some things are universally wrong does not hesitate to condemn this nonsense, but based on your unwillingness to accept such claims you must concede he has a point.
    Trump is an amoral piece of human feces. He has no moral compass.

    So, universal means they EXIST everywhere, but just aren't IN EXISTENCE everywhere. That makes zero sense.

    Also making zero sense is your notion "that some things are universally wrong". Just in this country alone, in the context of universal truths, universal right versus wrong, try addressing these two concepts:

    Abortion
    Gay marriage

    Universally right or universally wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by domer76 View Post
    Trump is an amoral piece of human feces. He has no moral compass.

    So, universal means they EXIST everywhere, but just aren't IN EXISTENCE everywhere. That makes zero sense.

    Also making zero sense is your notion "that some things are universally wrong". Just in this country alone, in the context of universal truths, universal right versus wrong, try addressing these two concepts:

    Abortion
    Gay marriage

    Universally right or universally wrong?
    But they do exist everywhere. Do you believe it is a just act or a violation of natural/human rights to kill a human, without some just cause, in North Korea? Does Donny Boy's bs point that it's rough in a lot of places make it ok?

    Who suggested it gives easy answers to all questions.

    Abortion is a bit tough but since I believe our natural rights are a product of our rational capacities and empathy, imo, a first trimester (my understanding of fetal development suggests up to 20 weeks) abortion is not a violation of natural rights.

    Marriage is a bundle of rights that can only be defined by law and is only relevant within the context of a society. No one can be said to have a natural right to marry, gay or straight. One can make a strong argument for a natural right to equality before the law and certainly one has a natural right to love and share their life with whomever (implies the other party has the same right to choose).

    I have tried to answer all your questions, but you are not returning the favor. How about answering your own questions?

    Do women have a moral right to control their own reproduction?

    Do people have a moral right to share their lives with someone of the same sex.

    Or do you say that whatever the state says is fine?

    Like I said, those on the left who reject the notion of natural or human rights face a similar paradox. What is your objection to Trump's actions? It does not appear to be in violation of the law, so you must not have one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timshel View Post
    But they do exist everywhere. Do you believe it is a just act or a violation of natural/human rights to kill a human, without some just cause, in North Korea? Does Donny Boy's bs point that it's rough in a lot of places make it ok?

    Who suggested it gives easy answers to all questions.

    Abortion is a bit tough but since I believe our natural rights are a product of our rational capacities and empathy, imo, a first trimester (my understanding of fetal development suggests up to 20 weeks) abortion is not a violation of natural rights.

    Marriage is a bundle of rights that can only be defined by law and is only relevant within the context of a society. No one can be said to have a natural right to marry, gay or straight. One can make a strong argument for a natural right to equality before the law and certainly one has a natural right to love and share their life with whomever (implies the other party has the same right to choose).

    I have tried to answer all your questions, but you are not returning the favor. How about answering your own questions?

    Do women have a moral right to control their own reproduction?

    Do people have a moral right to share their lives with someone of the same sex.

    Or do you say that whatever the state says is fine?

    Like I said, those on the left who reject the notion of natural or human rights face a similar paradox. What is your objection to Trump's actions? It does not appear to be in violation of the law, so you must not have one.
    You continue to prove my point with your response “I believe...” Nothing universal about that, is there?

    Who said marriage is not a natural right? Are you now defining what a natural right is or isn’t? Another validation of my point. One is unable to even define what is or isn’t a natural right.

    Since my questions were posed to you in the context of natural rights, I have no need to answer them. Natural rights do not apply.

    I’ll repeat the same thing I’ve been trying to get through to you. One does not need to accept the concept of some non-existent universal law to have a moral compass. My objection to Trump is that he is a patholgical liar and an amoral sociopath.That families can be retained intact rather than split up should be self-explanatory. But, you’ll see many on this forum are in favor of that. Where is your universality?

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    Very interesting discussion.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    No government has a right to deny ANYONE an inalienable God given right.
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    LOCK HIM UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    No government has a right to deny ANYONE an inalienable God given right.
    Maybe not the right, but they have the power. Throughout history.

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