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Thread: What exactly did Trump get for the US in Singapore that deserves praise?

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    Nixon Did It. Why Not Trump? Crib Notes for a Presidential Summit

    SINGAPORE — In 1972, while stopping in Hawaii en route to Beijing, President Nixon jotted a few notes to himself on a yellow pad ahead of his historic encounter with Mao Zedong, the revolutionary founder of the People’s Republic of China.
    Preparing for a meeting that would change the course of the Cold War, Nixon distilled history, politics and strategy into a handful of bullet points: What did China want? What did the United States want? What did they both want?
    President Trump has said he does not need to prepare for his summit meeting with Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader. But if Mr. Trump or an adviser were to make a similar set of notes, what might they say?
    Nixon answered this question for China in three concise answers: Build up their world credentials. Taiwan. Get the U.S. out of Asia.

    Mr. Trump might also reduce North Korea’s concerns to three points:

    1. Security
    Mr. Kim’s top priority is the security of his nation and the survival of the totalitarian regime that he inherited from his father and grandfather. He has said this is why he needs a nuclear arsenal: to deter the United States from attacking North Korea and attempting to overthrow him, as some in Washington have advocated.

    2. Respect
    If Mao was interested in China’s “world credentials,” Mr. Kim may be more interested in building up his reputation at home.
    Being treated as an equal by Mr. Trump confers prestige on Mr. Kim that he can use to strengthen his grip on power.
    Recognition as a nuclear state and acceptance in the international community would also bolster his position and allow him to boast of an achievement that eluded his father and grandfather. It is also a reason he may be reluctant to give up the weapons.

    3. Economic relief
    Mr. Kim has long called for the simultaneous pursuit of nuclear weapons and economic growth, but he abruptly announced in April that he was adopting a “new strategic line” that focuses on rebuilding the economy.
    He has already allowed some market forces to take hold, but there is a limit to the progress North Korea can make while isolated by international sanctions.
    “This is our biggest point of leverage,” said Suzanne DiMaggio, a director and senior fellow at the New America research group who has been involved in unofficial talks with North Korea.
    ‘What We Want’
    Nixon’s wish list from China included both immediate and long-term items — help ending the Vietnam War, restraining the spread of communism in Asia and reducing “the threat of a confrontation by Chinese Super Power.”

    Mr. Trump’s list for North Korea may be a similar combination of short- and long-term goals:

    1. Denuclearization
    This is the holy grail. It is critical to the balance of power in the region and global efforts to prevent nuclear proliferation. But the vast scope of North Korea’s program — and the fact that it has already tested and built nuclear weapons — means it would be the most challenging case of nuclear disarmament in history.
    Mr. Kim has committed to the “denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” but the phrase means different things in Pyongyang and Washington. The United States wants North Korea to give up its weapons, nuclear material and production facilities on an accelerated timeline under the eye of inspectors, but the North favors a more protracted process, with concessions by the United States up front.

    2. Stability
    North Korea rattled the region last year with its sixth underground nuclear explosion — of a possible hydrogen bomb — and 24 missile tests, including of a new intercontinental ballistic missile capable of hitting all of the United States. It also has a history of provocative military actions, including the shelling of a South Korean island and the suspected sinking of a South Korean naval vessel in 2010.
    But Mr. Kim said in April that the North no longer needed to test nuclear weapons or long-range missiles. If Mr. Trump persuades him to extend the moratorium, that would ease tensions while also slowing the development of his arsenal.

    3. Reduce threat to allies
    Mr. Trump has shown a disregard for America’s traditional alliances around the world, but the United States is bound by treaty to defend both South Korea and Japan. Reducing the threat posed by North Korea would make it less likely for America to be drawn into a conflict in Asia.
    Japan in particular is worried that even if North Korea gives up its nuclear arsenal and its ICBMs, it would still have shorter-range missiles as well as chemical and biological weapons. “You can say you’ve protected Americans,” said Daniel Sneider, a scholar at Stanford University. “Of course, you’ve left Japanese and Koreans and 80,000 American troops plus their dependents at risk.”

    ‘What We Both Want’

    his is where there is room for a deal to emerge. Nixon noted that China and the United States both wanted to reduce the risk of a conflict, and that both favored a more stable Asia and a restraint on the Soviet Union.


    But he has also committed to denuclearization, as long as the North can be guaranteed of its security. That is one reason a formal peace treaty ending the Korean War is under discussion. It could include assurances from both China and the United States and might lead eventually to the withdrawal of American troops from South Korea.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/w...mit-nixon.html
    What modern liberal neo-cons want:

    Bomb North Korea at minimum, preferably war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by christiefan915 View Post
    Yeah, I'm always supporting that we bomb, drone and kill people.

    .
    You offer nothing then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaya View Post
    Hilarious, remember when I said I would remind you when you complain about this...?

    Christiecrite
    She isn't able to be anything other than what she is- Her DNA made her that way.

    Your analogies in this thread are spot on.
    TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Not relevant, and Nixon didn't give concessions beforehand with the promise China was going to do something
    So status quo is your "solution". Sanctions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aloysious View Post
    And as a modern liberal neo-con you prefer they stay that way with their nukes and all rather than they become a vibrant, semi wealthy nation that doesn't shut itself off from the rest of the world.
    yeah, that is the urge of all dictators isn't it? Kim likes things the way they are. He would like sanctions to be lifted so he can steal even more. Kim is back too the hermit kingdom without nukes. Trump put him on the stage showing that Kims idea to get nuk.s was a great idea and worked like a charm, well on Trump anyway. Kim did not have to shut the kingdom off before. But he did. What will make him decide to open it up now? Oh, golf courses/ I don't think so. He is a god in NK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aloysious View Post
    So status quo is your "solution". Sanctions.
    Nope, but if you were able to bring North Korea to the table, which I admit was an accomplishment, why blow it, and give them concessions and get nothing substantial in return, hell, North Korea will summit all day if the results are the same

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    Quote Originally Posted by christiefan915 View Post
    I have the news on in the background and NK is spinning this that Kim made a list of demands and trump gave him everything he wanted.
    He has all that video of Trump praising him, and if you notice, Kim said very little.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Why is it so difficult for conservatives to understand, there was no substantial agreements, it was one of those we promise to promise in the future, and given North Korea's history, those promises aren't too reliable

    At the same time the US gave up a lot, granted Kim legitimacy, totally ignored his human rights record praising him as a "nice guy," ceased US/South Korea military exercises, and committed to the possibility of future US investment and aid. And for what, Kim could actually do absolutely nothing and he still came out ahead

    But I'll give you credit for taking a shot, more than your conservative comrades have attempted
    What president has gotten this far?

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Nope, but if you were able to bring North Korea to the table, which I admit was an accomplishment, why blow it, and give them concessions and get nothing substantial in return, hell, North Korea will summit all day if the results are the same
    What concessions did we give them?

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    We have been trying to broker peace between North and South Korea for decades. This is a first step in what will be a process of many steps. It is a positive step. The naysayers are all the same ugly pinch faced critics that hate all things Trump.
    TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by christiefan915 View Post
    In other words you can't answer and expect more from the white man than the black boy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Nope, but if you were able to bring North Korea to the table, which I admit was an accomplishment, why blow it, and give them concessions and get nothing substantial in return, hell, North Korea will summit all day if the results are the same
    Your black boy couldn't get them to the table. Why was he unable to do what the white man did?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Micawber View Post
    "Let's develop NK beachfront property."-- TRump
    Why not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by archives View Post
    Nope, but if you were able to bring North Korea to the table, which I admit was an accomplishment, why blow it, and give them concessions and get nothing substantial in return, hell, North Korea will summit all day if the results are the same

    Nixon Did It. Why Not Trump? Crib Notes for a Presidential Summit


    SINGAPORE — In 1972, while stopping in Hawaii en route to Beijing, President Nixon jotted a few notes to himself on a yellow pad ahead of his historic encounter with Mao Zedong, the revolutionary founder of the People’s Republic of China.
    Preparing for a meeting that would change the course of the Cold War, Nixon distilled history, politics and strategy into a handful of bullet points: What did China want? What did the United States want? What did they both want?
    President Trump has said he does not need to prepare for his summit meeting with Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader. But if Mr. Trump or an adviser were to make a similar set of notes, what might they say?

    ‘What They Want’

    Nixon answered this question for China in three concise answers: Build up their world credentials. Taiwan. Get the U.S. out of Asia.
    Mr. Trump might also reduce North Korea’s concerns to three points:

    1. Security

    Mr. Kim’s top priority is the security of his nation and the survival of the totalitarian regime that he inherited from his father and grandfather. He has said this is why he needs a nuclear arsenal: to deter the United States from attacking North Korea and attempting to overthrow him, as some in Washington have advocated.
    But he has also committed to denuclearization, as long as the North can be guaranteed of its security. That is one reason a formal peace treaty ending the Korean War is under discussion. It could include assurances from both China and the United States and might lead eventually to the withdrawal of American troops from South Korea.

    2. Respect

    If Mao was interested in China’s “world credentials,” Mr. Kim may be more interested in building up his reputation at home.
    Being treated as an equal by Mr. Trump confers prestige on Mr. Kim that he can use to strengthen his grip on power.
    Recognition as a nuclear state and acceptance in the international community would also bolster his position and allow him to boast of an achievement that eluded his father and grandfather. It is also a reason he may be reluctant to give up the weapons.

    3. Economic relief
    Mr. Kim has long called for the simultaneous pursuit of nuclear weapons and economic growth, but he abruptly announced in April that he was adopting a “new strategic line” that focuses on rebuilding the economy.
    He has already allowed some market forces to take hold, but there is a limit to the progress North Korea can make while isolated by international sanctions.
    “This is our biggest point of leverage,” said Suzanne DiMaggio, a director and senior fellow at the New America research group who has been involved in unofficial talks with North Korea.
    ‘What We Want’
    Nixon’s wish list from China included both immediate and long-term items — help ending the Vietnam War, restraining the spread of communism in Asia and reducing “the threat of a confrontation by Chinese Super Power.”

    Mr. Trump’s list for North Korea may be a similar combination of short- and long-term goals:

    1. Denuclearization

    This is the holy grail. It is critical to the balance of power in the region and global efforts to prevent nuclear proliferation. But the vast scope of North Korea’s program — and the fact that it has already tested and built nuclear weapons — means it would be the most challenging case of nuclear disarmament in history.
    Mr. Kim has committed to the “denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” but the phrase means different things in Pyongyang and Washington. The United States wants North Korea to give up its weapons, nuclear material and production facilities on an accelerated timeline under the eye of inspectors, but the North favors a more protracted process, with concessions by the United States up front.

    2. Stability

    North Korea rattled the region last year with its sixth underground nuclear explosion — of a possible hydrogen bomb — and 24 missile tests, including of a new intercontinental ballistic missile capable of hitting all of the United States. It also has a history of provocative military actions, including the shelling of a South Korean island and the suspected sinking of a South Korean naval vessel in 2010.
    But Mr. Kim said in April that the North no longer needed to test nuclear weapons or long-range missiles. If Mr. Trump persuades him to extend the moratorium, that would ease tensions while also slowing the
    development of his arsenal.

    3. Reduce threat to allies

    Mr. Trump has shown a disregard for America’s traditional alliances around the world, but the United States is bound by treaty to defend both South Korea and Japan. Reducing the threat posed by North Korea would make it less likely for America to be drawn into a conflict in Asia.
    Japan in particular is worried that even if North Korea gives up its nuclear arsenal and its ICBMs, it would still have shorter-range missiles as well as chemical and biological weapons. “You can say you’ve protected Americans,” said Daniel Sneider, a scholar at Stanford University. “Of course, you’ve left Japanese and Koreans and 80,000 American troops plus their dependents at risk.”

    ‘What We Both Want’
    This is where there is room for a deal to emerge.
    Mr. Trump might find common ground with Mr. Kim in these areas:

    1. A new relationship

    Both men have expressed frustration at the lack of progress in previous negotiations and may be interested in a game-changing breakthrough that redefines the relationship between the two nations.
    “If you just look at it as, ‘Give up your stuff,’ that framework is why we’ve been banging our head against the wall for so long,” said John Delury, a North Korea scholar at Yonsei University in Seoul. “If we say we need to fundamentally change the relationship, then you have a framework where there can be real progress.”

    2. Reduce danger of confrontation and conflict

    Mr. Trump threatened to unleash “fire and fury” on North Korea last year, and a North Korean official warned of a “nuclear-to-nuclear showdown” just a few weeks ago.
    But a war would mean devastating casualties, including of American troops in South Korea, and American cities would also be at risk of suffering a nuclear strike because of the North’s recent advances. For Mr. Kim, a war would almost certainly result in the end of his rule and the destruction of his country.

    3. Make our countries — and our leadership — great again
    Mr. Trump and Mr. Kim are both looking for political victories that will help them at home.
    “The imagery of Kim and Trump holding hands, embracing and declaring an end to the Korean War, is probably something they both individually want,” said Laura Rosenberger, a senior fellow and director of the Washington-based Alliance for Securing Democracy.

    4. More independence from China (?)

    North Korea once enjoyed two sponsors, China and the Soviet Union. But China has been its main economic benefactor since the Soviet collapse, accounting for more than 90 percent of foreign trade. In recent years, Beijing has also helped keep the North afloat by blocking or resisting tighter sanctions against it.
    There is evidence, though, that suggests Mr. Kim is worried about growing too dependent on China.
    As the United States and China compete for influence in Asia, any shift by North Korea away from Beijing might work to America’s advantage.

    How to Treat Him

    Henry Kissinger and other advisers tried to give Nixon advice on how to treat Mao before their summit meeting. In James Mann’s book “About Face: A History of America’s Curious Relationship With China, From Nixon to Clinton,” he reported that Nixon wrote:
    Treat him (as Emperor)
    1. Don’t quarrell (sic)
    2. Don’t praise him (too much)
    3. Praise the people — art, ancient.
    4. Praise poems.
    5. Love of country.


    Mr. Trump might consider these suggestions:
    1. Treat him as a statesman.
    2. Emphasize mutual respect.
    3. Listen.
    4. Praise friendship with Dennis Rodman (and maybe suggest a burger in Singapore?).
    5. Don’t talk about Libya.
    (that was Obama's mess)
    Some have urged Mr. Trump to raise North Korea’s abysmal human rights record, which he highlighted during his State of the Union address in January. But few expect him to spend much if any time on the subject.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/w...mit-nixon.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Trump gave away the farm. He called a ruthless dictator, smart, funny and talented. He said his people love him. Trump suggested that NK would be happy to denuke. Really, what is North Korea without nukes? Sorry, but Trump blew a big one.
    North Korea needs nukes to help protect itself from the hated US.

    -- The Left
    Free speech is cool as long as it jibes with our program.

    -- The Left


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