President Trump's Tariffs

[Supposn]

President Trump's Tariffs:

I did not vote for a Democrat or a Republican 2017 presidential candidate or for their electoral college supporters. I indicated my rejection by voting for less than electable 3d party candidate, to demonstrate my opposition to the declared policies of both major parties and their candidates.

I am not among those that squandered their votes in favor of candidates for which they had no confidence. I was particularly opposed to Donald Trump. Although I certainly wish our president well, President Trump's administration has not earned my confidence.

I'm a proponent of the improved policy described by Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article. It is superior to free trade or tariff policy. It would very significantly reduce, if not entirely eliminate USA's chronic annual trade deficits in a manner that would increase USA's domestic production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

We suppose Trump's tariffs on aluminum and steel will not do so, but the tariffs limitations would rather reduce our net production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise. If USA taxes imported aluminum and steel, it's preferable that we tax all USA imports, from all nations, to the extents they contain aluminum or steel.

It's not logical to “protect” USA steel mills but leave their USA customers at disadvantage to imports using cheaper foreign steel, and USA's trade laws should not pass judgment of other nation's wage scales.
When USA customers for USA steel are crowded out of the markets, where's the market for USA steel produced by higher earning USA labor? Additionally, because tariffs, unlike Import Certificates would only be applicable to steel and aluminum, those USA products will continue to be crowded out by any goods or service products that could serve as an alternative to products made with steel or aluminum.

But if the Trump administration can succeed to reduce USA's chronic annual trade deficits of goods, and increase our domestic production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise, regardless of all my other objections to the Trump administration, It's highly likely that I'd vote in favor of re-electing president Donald Trump.

Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article.
Respectfully, Supposn

[katzgar]

President Trump's Tariffs:

I did not vote for a Democrat or a Republican 2017 presidential candidate or for their electoral college supporters. I indicated my rejection by voting for less than electable 3d party candidate, to demonstrate my opposition to the declared policies of both major parties and their candidates.

I am not among those that squandered their votes in favor of candidates for which they had no confidence. I was particularly opposed to Donald Trump. Although I certainly wish our president well, President Trump's administration has not earned my confidence.

I'm a proponent of the improved policy described by Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article. It is superior to free trade or tariff policy. It would very significantly reduce, if not entirely eliminate USA's chronic annual trade deficits in a manner that would increase USA's domestic production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

We suppose Trump's tariffs on aluminum and steel will not do so, but the tariffs limitations would rather reduce our net production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise. If USA taxes imported aluminum and steel, it's preferable that we tax all USA imports, from all nations, to the extents they contain aluminum or steel.

It's not logical to “protect” USA steel mills but leave their USA customers at disadvantage to imports using cheaper foreign steel, and USA's trade laws should not pass judgment of other nation's wage scales.
When USA customers for USA steel are crowded out of the markets, where's the market for USA steel produced by higher earning USA labor? Additionally, because tariffs, unlike Import Certificates would only be applicable to steel and aluminum, those USA products will continue to be crowded out by any goods or service products that could serve as an alternative to products made with steel or aluminum.

But if the Trump administration can succeed to reduce USA's chronic annual trade deficits of goods, and increase our domestic production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise, regardless of all my other objections to the Trump administration, It's highly likely that I'd vote in favor of re-electing president Donald Trump.

Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article.
Respectfully, Supposn

There was no presidential election in 2017

[PoliTalker]

Hello Supposn,

So, let me get this straight.

Importing goods into the USA would be illegal without exporting an equal dollar amount of goods.

Certificates would be used for the verification of the above.

Well, that's all fine and well for the USA, it's what we would really like to have; but that is going to absolutely DEVASTATE some foreign interests.

Should we care?

I suspect we should.

Such a move would not be well received.

We do live in a world community.

[PoliTalker]

I would also expect that this would create a huge black market.

[Supposn]

Hello Supposn,

So, let me get this straight.

Importing goods into the USA would be illegal without exporting an equal dollar amount of goods.

Certificates would be used for the verification of the above.

Well, that's all fine and well for the USA, it's what we would really like to have; but that is going to absolutely DEVASTATE some foreign interests.

Should we care?

I suspect we should.

Such a move would not be well received.

We do live in a world community.

USA's trade agreements are all subject to modification or termination:
Refer to:
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...05#post2393505

Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nation's GDP and drag upon their numbers of jobs, although we all benefit from cheaper imported products they do not fully compensate for our chronic annual trade deficts detrimental effects upon our domestic production and our numbers of jobs.

This economic burden is primarily upon USA employees and their dependents, the largest segment of our population that accounts for almost our entire segment of middle- income earners and statistically the entire segment of our population's income earners that do not earn more than the median wage.

It is also detrimental to enterprises to any extent that they are more sensitive to to the financial conditions of families not exceeding USA's median family income.

Respectfully, Supposn

[Supposn]

I would also expect that this would create a huge black market.

PoliTalker, if you carefully read Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article, please explain how this would create a huge black market?
Respectfully, Supposn

[PoliTalker]

Hello Supposn,

USA's trade agreements are all subject to modification or termination:
Refer to:
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...05#post2393505

Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nation's GDP and drag upon their numbers of jobs, although we all benefit from cheaper imported products they do not fully compensate for our chronic annual trade deficts detrimental effects upon our domestic production and our numbers of jobs.

This economic burden is primarily upon USA employees and their dependents, the largest segment of our population that accounts for almost our entire segment of middle- income earners and statistically the entire segment of our population's income earners that do not earn more than the median wage.

It is also detrimental to enterprises to any extent that they are more sensitive to to the financial conditions of families not exceeding USA's median family income.

Respectfully, Supposn

Can I surmise (because you completely ignored my comment that this would not be received very well by our foreign trade partners) that you simply don't care to address that very real consideration?

You only care about what happens to the USA?

You can't be bothered to give any consideration to what happens to trade partners?

We don't exist in a vacuum.

I am not disputing that this would be wonderful for our trade deficit. Oh, yes, it would completely fix that imbalance, be very good for the USA. You don't have to convince me of that. I am not disputing that at all. I think it would have the same effect as tariffs. It would kick off a trade war. The trade war would hurt us. Everybody loses in a trade war.

[PoliTalker]

Hello Supposn,

PoliTalker, if you carefully read Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article, please explain how this would create a huge black market?
Respectfully, Supposn

If you make something illegal, and there is money to be made at it, people are going to do it for the money.

The only way to prevent that is to spend lots of money for enforcement.

Either way, it is going to cost you.

[Nordberg]

Trade deficits are hugely caused by American companies moving their manufacturing plants to China and third world countries. Like Trump, they have their products made abroad to escape environmental regulation and worker protections. So we buy our products made abroad. tariffs wont do anything but raise prices for American consumers. That is who pays for a tariff.

[Supposn]

Hello Supposn,



If you make something illegal, and there is money to be made at it, people are going to do it for the money.

The only way to prevent that is to spend lots of money for enforcement.

Either way, it is going to cost you.

PoliTalk, you don't spend for locks on your doors or your vehicles?
You advocate we should no longer fund our criminal and civil justice systems, safety and security enforcement organizations? We needn't fund regulating food, or drugs, or aviation, or our infrastructures and our transporting of people and cargo, drugs, FAA, Centers for communicable diseases, our armed forces, and a great deal more?

I understand the concept of reasonable cost/benefits and risks analysis; we disagree upon what are the problems and those problems extents, but we do, I suppose to have some similar thoughts regarding these concepts?

Regarding USA's chronic annual trade deficits of good that has been greatly detrimental to our economy our financial, social well-being and it has well begun to reduce our nation's technical capacity and our sustainable military preparedness; make your cases and we can discuss them all.

Respectfully, Supposn

[Supposn]

Trade deficits are hugely caused by American companies moving their manufacturing plants to China and third world countries. Like Trump, they have their products made abroad to escape environmental regulation and worker protections. So we buy our products made abroad. tariffs wont do anything but raise prices for American consumers. That is who pays for a tariff.

Nordberg, I did not vote for Hillary or for Trump in 2016.

I'm a proponent of the improved policy described by Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article. It is superior to free trade or tariff policy. It would very significantly reduce, if not entirely eliminate USA's chronic annual trade deficits in a manner that would increase USA's domestic production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise.

But if the Trump administration can succeed to reduce USA's chronic annual trade deficits of goods, and increase our domestic production and numbers of jobs more than otherwise, regardless of all my other objections to the Trump administration, It's highly likely that I'd vote in favor of re-electing President Donald Trump.

Refer to Wikipedia's “Import Certificates” article.
Respectfully, Supposn

[midcan5]

What sort of odd propaganda is this thread? Import certificates help elect Trump, I can see the headline now. Of course no one knows what Import certs are but that may not matter as we are in a weird place.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...t-certificates

"The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable." John Kenneth Galbraith

[Supposn]

Hello Supposn,



Can I surmise (because you completely ignored my comment that this would not be received very well by our foreign trade partners) that you simply don't care to address that very real consideration?

You only care about what happens to the USA?

You can't be bothered to give any consideration to what happens to trade partners?

We don't exist in a vacuum.

I am not disputing that this would be wonderful for our trade deficit. Oh, yes, it would completely fix that imbalance, be very good for the USA. You don't have to convince me of that. I am not disputing that at all. I think it would have the same effect as tariffs. It would kick off a trade war. The trade war would hurt us. Everybody loses in a trade war.

Politalker, certainly you can surmise, and similar to many speculations based upon little facts and/or insufficient clues, you'd be incorrect in this case.

Judging from the wording of your post #3 within this tread, I couldn't determine if you actually had, or had not gotten the Wikipedia's concept improved “Import Certificates”,“straight”.
Regardless if you had or had not fully examined the concept, I couldn't from your post determine if you were, or were not questioning trade deficits' net detriments to their nations' economies, or were questioning the legality of USA's adopting the Import Certificate policy? If your post was expressing such concerns, those were the considerations I first wished to, and did address.

Regarding the question of legality, I consider that facet of the import certificate topic to be worthy of its own discussion thread; I immediately established and linked you to that thread.

Now precisely what do you wish us to first discuss?
Respectfully, Supposn

[Althea]

USA's trade agreements are all subject to modification or termination:
Refer to:
https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...05#post2393505

Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nation's GDP and drag upon their numbers of jobs, although we all benefit from cheaper imported products they do not fully compensate for our chronic annual trade deficts detrimental effects upon our domestic production and our numbers of jobs.

This economic burden is primarily upon USA employees and their dependents, the largest segment of our population that accounts for almost our entire segment of middle- income earners and statistically the entire segment of our population's income earners that do not earn more than the median wage.

It is also detrimental to enterprises to any extent that they are more sensitive to to the financial conditions of families not exceeding USA's median family income.

Respectfully, Supposn

We are the world's largest consumer of cheap crap. Hard to match our imports with corresponding exports. We export a lot of food. Tariffs have already created a cut back in that.

There are always those who work around tariffs. When Obama put a tariff on Chinese tires, we simply got tires from other countries instead. None of which were named 'America'.

So we tax everything that reaches our shores?

[Supposn]

What sort of odd propaganda is this thread? Import certificates help elect Trump, I can see the headline now. Of course no one knows what Import certs are but that may not matter as we are in a weird place.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...t-certificates

"The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable." John Kenneth Galbraith

MidCan5, as a child, I remember the day I saw a picture of the mushroom cloud on the Daily New's front page. I didn't realize the significance of what was pictured. I only knew the U.S. had dropped a bomb bigger than any previously existing explosive device, I never had previously heard of the words “atom” or “atomic”. I doubt if you'll find it used by very many politicians prior to that August day in 1945.
(But I very much appreciated the significance of ballpoint pens then being introduced by Macy's department stores)
.
I read of Polaroid camera and film in Popular Sciences “New Products” section of the magazine, I never heard of it before and didn't think more of it than of any other new product on the market.

I came across a description of a “value added tax” while browsing in the public library. I appreciated what it could mean to the nations of Europe, but I doubted if those clowns would ever get together and agree on it. A trading area not much less, and is now greater than was then our 48 state trading area, would not have been as feasible, if the Europeans hadn't adapted the superior sales tax administration method we know as “VAT”.

I'm an old man and reasonably confident that within the comparatively short time of my remaining life, (unless I suddenly die accidentally), I will see the federal minimum wage rate pegged to a federal cost-price index number or something similar to it.
I believe that just as many more longer term contracts are being pegged to something similar to the U.S. Treasuries borrowing rates, many more future contracts will be pegged to something that reflects current U.S. dollar's purchasing power.

I have hope, but I do not have sufficiently similar confidence that the USA will adopt something similar to Wikipedia's improved version of an Import Certificate policy.

The remedy for ignorance is information. For some people, stupidity is their terminal condition; but they're often ignorant of their condition and they die pleased with themselves.

MidCan5, I hope you get whatever best pleases you.
Respectfully, Supposn