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Thread: Jordan Peterson calmly dismantles feminism infront of two feminists

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    That depends on how you define "qualified". Two persons may have the same degree and professional licensing, for example, but have completely different qualfications in terms of experience, performance and leadership ability. I certainly agree that artificial barriers to women competing it the market place should be eliminated and that in most places and settings they have been. The problem is, you still have to compete and often your qualifications are only part of the story. If you have to equally qualified people but one is significantly more competitive, it's likely that person will get hired or promoted. Just because one is qualified doesn't mean you get a "do not have to compete" card.
    Shouldn't the one doing the hiring be the one to determine how "qualified" is defined?

    If being competitive is part of what the one doing the hiring considers important, the one that is more competitive is more qualified in that case, all other things being equal. If being competitive isn't part of the consideration, being more competitive makes no difference.

    A problem with feminism is that, while they claim they are only pushing for equal opportunity, they often use numbers, data, etc. related to results to argue they aren't getting those opportunities. They don't focus on 'I wan't allowed a chance', they focus on 'not enough women are being hired, promoted, admitted, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    That depends on how you define "qualified". Two persons may have the same degree and professional licensing, for example, but have completely different qualifications in terms of experience, performance and leadership ability. I certainly agree that artificial barriers to women competing in the market place should be eliminated and that in most places and settings they have been in this country. The problem is, you still have to compete and often your qualifications are only part of the story. If you have to equally qualified people but one is significantly more competitive, it's likely that person will get hired or promoted. Just because one is qualified doesn't mean you get a "do not have to compete" card. Then you have the issue of being interested in different things.

    For example, women are extremely under represented at the senior management level in corporations. It appears that has less to do with glass ceilings and more to do with women not being interested in competing in the corporate rat race.

    On the other hand Women are over represented at the professional level (first professional Doctorate or higher) in Health Care. Why? More than likely because they are more interested in being a health care providers than being in business.

    So those are some gender differences that do explain some of the discrepencies we see between genders in the work place.

    Those are not neccessarily oppression or bias against women in the work place. There are other factors than basic qualifications that come into play.
    Mott women are interested in the corporate rat race, I would love for you to meet my girlfriends, they would find your statement offensive. I have stated before the reason they did not seek those careers is because they are discouraged. Gender stereotypes are a real thing. I lived during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. It is only in the last decades that girls are encouraged to be what they want to be, encouraged to seek higher education other than to get a man or become a teacher. There are more women attending college, more women running for politics. The new generations are not held back by the statement, girls don’t do that, times are a changing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Jordan, though currently popular with the right for his scathing criticism of the radical left is really a rationalist and a political moderate who understands the dangers of group think and political radicalism of either stripe. It’s his rationalism and not any underlying political philosophy that makes him popular.

    It's like the most rightist thing in the world to claim to have no ideology.
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasmal View Post
    Mott women are interested in the corporate rat race, I would love for you to meet my girlfriends, they would find your statement offensive. I have stated before the reason they did not seek those careers is because they are discouraged. Gender stereotypes are a real thing. I lived during the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. It is only in the last decades that girls are encouraged to be what they want to be, encouraged to seek higher education other than to get a man or become a teacher. There are more women attending college, more women running for politics. The new generations are not held back by the statement, girls don’t do that, times are a changing.
    I’m not saying they are not. I work in a corporate office and see plenty of women in leadership roles. I’m not making sweeping generalizations. I’m saying more women prefer to compete in other fields, which is true, which is why in a corporation you will see more men in leadership roles than women and not a 50:50 split. My supervisor, for example, is female. But how would you explain then why the majority of women occupy professional positions then men in a hospital? Both are equally challenging and conservative professions. Should men be complaining about bias in the work place at hospitals? Of course not.

    Now don’t get me wrong I’m not saying bias in the work place doesn’t exist. I’m just saying you have to look at the issue as a multi variable equation that defy explanation by simple statistics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wokest View Post
    It's like the most rightist thing in the world to claim to have no ideology.
    Spoken like a true Marxist. It’s really more rational to conclude that when ideology is more important than facts and reality what you get is extremism.
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    FEMINISM OWNED
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Spoken like a true Marxist. It’s really more rational to conclude that when ideology is more important than facts and reality what you get is extremism.
    I trust people more who are honest about the ideology they hold than those who disingenuously claim to be above it all yet have a clear agenda.
    "Do not think that I came to bring peace... I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." - Matthew 10:34

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wokest View Post
    I trust people more who are honest about the ideology they hold than those who disingenuously claim to be above it all yet have a clear agenda.
    That’s not the same as ideology. One can have values and not adhere to a specific ideology. To be honest no one is above the fray but only a minority are truly partisan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Spoken like a true Marxist. It’s really more rational to conclude that when ideology is more important than facts and reality what you get is extremism.
    In my heavy reading of Modern Age (Russell Kirk's journal) and National Review, this has been a constant warning that traditionalists have provided their readers. From the John Birchers to objectivists to neocons to right populists, there is always a danger in making ideology the centerpiece of your life and public presence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    Yeh yeh blah blah!

    I thought Mott would avoid this like the plague, as for Rana...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Threedee View Post
    In my heavy reading of Modern Age (Russell Kirk's journal) and National Review, this has been a constant warning that traditionalists have provided their readers. From the John Birchers to objectivists to neocons to right populists, there is always a danger in making ideology the centerpiece of your life and public presence.
    That’s because ideology is easier than thinking. Thinking is a messy, unkind, and uncomfortable process that requires imagination and the empathy to understand others point of view separate from your own bias. That requires hard work.

    I’ve always found objectivist funny. They’re rarely objective. If you really want to become disciplined in objectivity then study science and then learn how to apply it. You’ll learn three things, how little you/we really know. You’re wrong far more often than you are right and how rewarding and rare it is to have an independent idea that is actually right.
    Last edited by Mott the Hoople; 05-24-2018 at 05:48 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    That’s because ideology is easier than thinking. Thinking is a messy, unkind, and uncomfortable process that requires imagination and the empathy to understand others point of view separate from your own bias.
    And there we have the typical left winger's incorrect assumption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    I thought Mott would avoid this like the plague, as for Rana...
    Seen it already. I was familiar with Camille before I’d heard of Peterson. She hasn’t become an alt right hero like Peterson. I wonder why?

    Hell I wonder why Peterson has become popular with the far right. He’s not exactly in their camp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFM View Post
    And there we have the typical left winger's incorrect assumption.
    Really? What false assumptions? Blind us with your brilliance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Really? What false assumptions? Blind us with your brilliance.
    You assume that people pick an ideology then adjust their personal beliefs to it.

    You assume that because there is opposition to someone else's belief that their isn't understanding of those beliefs

    You assume that if someone doesn't believe like you, they aren't objective.

    You have the arrogant attitude, because you're a left winger, that people not believing like you don't think and haven't truly looked at what they believe. Your smartass "blind us with your brilliance" statement proves you have that attitude. I did. Now, let's see if you're capable of learning.

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