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Thread: The Companies Offshoring Jobs at a Record Pace Under Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    American jobs are winning.......lib'rul cunts are losing........sorry you are too blind to see it......
    Truth is ,as the stats are showing, that more companies are offshoring since Trump got in office. Republicunts just cannot handle the truth. PP the stats are showing it. I guess Inforwars and Fox are hiding it from you and you have no other sources. Sorry your ignorance is so deeply rooted.

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    Hello Kacper,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    If helping out workers is your only factor, then significant trade barriers would achieve the same end. I oppose UBI because its effect would be to accelerate job loss. It is a corporate subsidy that guarantees them cash flow from the very workers they would replace with automation. I would, however, support a system that diffuses corporate ownership via a public trust that would operate as a hybrid supplemental 401K in relation to the social security system by which workers could invest via paycheck withholdings with the public trust perpetually acquiring a greater share of capital.
    Great idea but it won't work because of the bigger problem facing the US economy: There are not, and will never be again, enough well-paying full time jobs for everyone.

    The situation is only going to get worse. You can blame the poor all you like, claim they 'made poor choices in life,' whatever. That won't change the dynamic that there are not enough good jobs. The employment picture in the USA is bad and getting worse, not better. Even if all the poor suddenly all made great decisions and applied themselves, they cannot all work their way out of poverty because there are not enough jobs to go around. You can fool yourself by daydreaming over the wonderful sounding low unemployment rate, but you cannot escape the facts. The BLS uses a metric to define 'employed' vs 'unemployed' for the purposes of producing the unemployment rate. Take a wild guess how many hours per week an individual has to work, on average, to be counted as 'employed,' and thus not be counted as 'unemployed.' Do you know what that figure is? How many working hours a week it takes to be shifted from 'unemployed' to 'employed?'

    I know the answer, and it is shocking.

    ONE.

    One hour per week of work, and that individual is counted as 'employed,' not 'unemployed.'

    So, when we look at our unemployment figure, anybody who only gets one hour of work per week is considered employed.

    Obviously this has become a meaningless figure.

    Nobody can live on one hour of work per week.

    (Unless, of course, they are a big fat high paid executive earning 400 times the average workers' pay)

    But not everybody can be CEO.

    What we really need would be an 'Underemployment Rate.'

    But we don't do that one because it would be too depressing.

    It doesn't matter whether or not you think we should have UBI.

    It's coming. It's only a matter of time until we realize it and implement it.

    Government could get way more efficient when we do, also.

    We wouldn't have to have so many social assistance programs. Forget most of that stuff. It won't be needed any more. We won't have to have a massive bureaucracy to administer it, either. That will make government more efficient. Instead of paying a lot of people to figure out who gets how much of the dole we just give up and hand out standard checks, without all the jumping through hoops.

    What we ought to do is make darn sure we stop rewarding child birth. We should give a couple the same amount whether they have no kids or 4 kids. If they have more kids they have a tighter budget. If they don't have kids, they can live a higher lifestyle.

    That's what we should do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Kacper,



    Great idea but it won't work because of the bigger problem facing the US economy: There are not, and will never be again, enough well-paying full time jobs for everyone.

    The situation is only going to get worse. You can blame the poor all you like, claim they 'made poor choices in life,' whatever. That won't change the dynamic that there are not enough good jobs. The employment picture in the USA is bad and getting worse, not better. Even if all the poor suddenly all made great decisions and applied themselves, they cannot all work their way out of poverty because there are not enough jobs to go around. You can fool yourself by daydreaming over the wonderful sounding low unemployment rate, but you cannot escape the facts. The BLS uses a metric to define 'employed' vs 'unemployed' for the purposes of producing the unemployment rate. Take a wild guess how many hours per week an individual has to work, on average, to be counted as 'employed,' and thus not be counted as 'unemployed.' Do you know what that figure is? How many working hours a week it takes to be shifted from 'unemployed' to 'employed?'

    I know the answer, and it is shocking.

    ONE.

    One hour per week of work, and that individual is counted as 'employed,' not 'unemployed.'

    So, when we look at our unemployment figure, anybody who only gets one hour of work per week is considered employed.

    Obviously this has become a meaningless figure.

    Nobody can live on one hour of work per week.

    (Unless, of course, they are a big fat high paid executive earning 400 times the average workers' pay)

    But not everybody can be CEO.

    What we really need would be an 'Underemployment Rate.'

    But we don't do that one because it would be too depressing.

    It doesn't matter whether or not you think we should have UBI.

    It's coming. It's only a matter of time until we realize it and implement it.

    Government could get way more efficient when we do, also.

    We wouldn't have to have so many social assistance programs. Forget most of that stuff. It won't be needed any more. We won't have to have a massive bureaucracy to administer it, either. That will make government more efficient. Instead of paying a lot of people to figure out who gets how much of the dole we just give up and hand out standard checks, without all the jumping through hoops.

    What we ought to do is make darn sure we stop rewarding child birth. We should give a couple the same amount whether they have no kids or 4 kids. If they have more kids they have a tighter budget. If they don't have kids, they can live a higher lifestyle.

    That's what we should do.
    Working 1 hour a week is employed. It is barely employed but it is technically employed. LOL. There are other ways to bridge the unemployment problem. One survey I saw a few months back put taking care of elderly/sick relatives or being elderly/sick/unable to work was a huge chunk of people who were unemployed. Instead of UBI, use some of the money for 1) disability and 2) A system by which people taking care of verified ill/disabled people without pay now get some pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Truth is ,as the stats are showing, that more companies are offshoring since Trump got in office. Republicunts just cannot handle the truth. PP the stats are showing it. I guess Inforwars and Fox are hiding it from you and you have no other sources. Sorry your ignorance is so deeply rooted.
    that of course is an outright lie.......you can't show me stats......

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    Quote Originally Posted by PostmodernProphet View Post
    that of course is an outright lie.......you can't show me stats......
    Good grief you guys are babies. that was the first post in the thread. You cannot understand the premise of the thread, since it was not from Fox Gnus. Even federal contractors are setting records. http://www.americanmanufacturing.org...e-getting-paid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    Good grief you guys are babies. that was the first post in the thread.
    the OP would be wrong then, because the jobs lost do NOT exceed the jobs gained.....ah double checked.....OP doesn't state that.....go find some facts and check back with us.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    Increasing wages raise taxes. Clearly you don't understand employment. Employers pay an additional employee tax of 7.65% that doesn't appear on the paycheck stubs and W-2's as they match an employee's SS and medicare withholding rates. Self employed people have to pay the whole amount themselves.
    I'm self employed for 40 years. How about you? Anything else you wish to discuss w/respect to taxation?
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granule View Post
    you're the one who doesn't get it.

    You see, pervert. You have to entice companies to stay in America, not try and force them to stay. Strong arm tactics may work under the fascist regimes of the Left, but not in a free country.
    Which is why companies who offshore jobs should pay the highest taxes, while the ones bringing jobs back should get tax breaks.
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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    Hello Kacper,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    Working 1 hour a week is employed. It is barely employed but it is technically employed. LOL. There are other ways to bridge the unemployment problem. One survey I saw a few months back put taking care of elderly/sick relatives or being elderly/sick/unable to work was a huge chunk of people who were unemployed. Instead of UBI, use some of the money for 1) disability and 2) A system by which people taking care of verified ill/disabled people without pay now get some pay.
    Nice idea but it doesn't solve the worsening underemployment problem.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Kacper,



    Nice idea but it doesn't solve the worsening underemployment problem.

    Underemployment doesn't concern me so much. That is often a conscious choice by the people or at least the by-product of choices that led them to that situation. They can acquire better skills, change their situation, etc, or keep on scraping by. Not everyone can be saved, especially those that don't really care enough to be saved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Which is why companies who offshore jobs should pay the highest taxes, while the ones bringing jobs back should get tax breaks.
    Nope. They're already paying enough taxes in their host countries. Your proposal is still too abusive. Offer tax breaks here, or just leave them alone.

    Besides, the government gets enough in taxes, as it is. It's not the citizens' fault that these assholes can't maintain their budgets.
    Free speech is cool as long as it jibes with our program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granule View Post
    Nope. They're already paying enough taxes in their host countries. Your proposal is still too abusive. Offer tax breaks here, or just leave them alone.

    Besides, the government gets enough in taxes, as it is. It's not the citizens' fault that these assholes can't maintain their budgets.
    Yes. We agree that military spending is out of hand.
    Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

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    Hello Kacper,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    Underemployment doesn't concern me so much. That is often a conscious choice by the people or at least the by-product of choices that led them to that situation.
    No! You cannot blame poverty on the POOR!

    That is a mistake. Nobody can help what they are born into. Only few rise very far above it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    They can acquire better skills, change their situation, etc, or keep on scraping by. Not everyone can be saved, especially those that don't really care enough to be saved.
    Underemployment should concern everyone. Our economy is not functioning very well, and is experiencing a gradual decline in prosperity for half the nation. Those who 'don't really care enough to be saved' were not born feeling like that. Their situation is so depressing they gave up hope before even becoming adults. It is not their fault for feeling like that. The same person, born to wealth, caring and options, would most likely do very well in life, and definitely care enough to strive.

    If you believe there is a well-paying full time job with adequate benefits for everyone, and that all they have to do is "acquire better skills, change their situation, etc," you are sadly mistaken. There simply are not enough of those types of jobs to go around. There's something like 20 million people 'scraping by.' And another 25 million who are barely OK, only as long as they get all their hours in, but they have no savings, no home, virtually no net worth. One illness or injury away from being evicted. I'm telling you there are not enough good jobs for ALL of them to move up to a median middle class life and income.

    And even IF miraculously they did all achieve this, and even IF somehow a sufficient number of great jobs materialized out of thin air to support them all, the functions they performed at dirt wages / no benefits / too few hours per week, all of that would still have to be done by somebody, but there would be nobody to do it. In this little myth scenario that all those people have to do is better themselves and it's their own damned fault if they can't do it, all those people would no longer be available to work the dirt wage dead end jobs.

    So, the whole idea that the poor have nobody to blame but themselves, and all they have to do is apply themselves, and poverty itself would be instantly eradicated; that whole myth is preposterous. It is ridiculously illogical to believe it. Not possible. What is true is that only SOME can manage to climb their way out of poverty, and our society creates more poverty than it stamps out, and it is NOT the fault of the poor, or the children born into that situation. Our economy depends on taking advantage of poor people. It's the modern form of serfdom.

    They have no power.

    They didn't create it.

    The powerful DO take measures to keep them entrapped in poverty.

    Liberals DO force government to use our collective power to try to help, and that help DOES make a difference.

    All this conservative propaganda about cutting spending is AIMED AT ELIMINATING the programs which help the poor. And that would make our problems worse.

    The conservative myth that the poor are to blame and they should help themselves is only thinly disguised justification for GREED and SELFISHNESS; and wanting to reduce taxes so low that the government cannot afford to help the poor and disadvantaged.

    And the ironic thing is that money and aid given to the poor is DIRECTLY SPENT in our economy; and without it there would be a recession.

    If conservatives got their way, they would crash the economy.

    THAT's why smart liberals must continue to share SENSE and LOGIC to combat the propaganda of the right.

    Conservative Myths, a dime a dozen. And not worth two cents.

    Actually not worth anything at all. Even worse, they actually cost us money. Just think. If we were successful at eliminating poverty, our GDP would be higher, government spending would be lower, our society would be more productive, and everyone whose lives could be improved would experience that improvement.

    Conservatives don't have all the answers, liberals don't have all the answers, but maybe together we can do what neither side can do alone. Certainly not with the opposing side fighting every effort one side makes unilaterally. Heavy polarization and spreading of myths certainly is not going to help the situation. What we have been doing, the way we have been approaching this has made some progress in certain areas, but has not solved the overall problem. We need some kind of change in our approach. I don't know what that is, but I can be honest about our situation and I have to remind everyone that propaganda is not going to lead to effective policy. We have to recognize the situation, analyze the true causes and factors, theorize about how to change the dynamic, test our theories, figure out what works and what doesn't, improve our approach, and keep trying. One thing that is not going to help us is to have a bunch of naysayers spreading myths who never want to spend any money to fix the things that are actually costing us money. That's like not wanting to spend a buck to put a washer in a dripping faucet and instead having to pay a high water bill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Kacper,



    No! You cannot blame poverty on the POOR!
    ....
    Just as you cannot dismiss that a great many of the poor make conscious bad decisions. There are just too many households where people start off as poor and end up successful or where some poor children do very well while others in the same household turn out worthless to dismiss that individual efforts play a huge part in economic success. Those efforts are often ones put in before they get their first job. 2X9=18 at Phillips Exeter Academy, PS 14 and every other school in the country, yet too many people never even bother to learn basic math. I am more interested in helping those who have skills, want to work, and cannot find work find work than I am helping people with minable skills who do not put in the effort to acquire new skills get paid more for their work as the resources we currently have for those efforts are constrained. Quite frankly, I am willing to acknowledge what very few on the left will but should--a lot of these people we are talking about are lost causes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kacper View Post
    Just as you cannot dismiss that a great many of the poor make conscious bad decisions. There are just too many households where people start off as poor and end up successful or where some poor children do very well while others in the same household turn out worthless to dismiss that individual efforts play a huge part in economic success. Those efforts are often ones put in before they get their first job. 2X9=18 at Phillips Exeter Academy, PS 14 and every other school in the country, yet too many people never even bother to learn basic math. I am more interested in helping those who have skills, want to work, and cannot find work find work than I am helping people with minable skills who do not put in the effort to acquire new skills get paid more for their work as the resources we currently have for those efforts are constrained. Quite frankly, I am willing to acknowledge what very few on the left will but should--a lot of these people we are talking about are lost causes.
    No, I'm not disputing that the poor make bad decisions. I am wondering why they do.

    Why do you think the poor make bad decisions?

    Do you think it is genetic?

    Are the poor just born with a 'poverty gene' which causes them to be bad from birth at everything which might lead them toward a successful life?

    Is it just tough luck if an individual gets the 'poverty gene' which renders them a 'lost cause' from birth?

    Most people are learning basic math at a very early age. If not before kindergarten, then certainly it begins there right at the beginning of K-12. The students are age 5-6 then. So do you believe that these kids who do not learn basic math at that age are 'lost causes' who got the 'poverty gene' so they will never amount to anything?

    Or maybe you blame these 5-6 year olds for not trying hard enough. Maybe the little runts just have bad attitudes? It's kinda harsh to believe they have a bad gene which renders them stuck in poverty for life. So maybe they LEARN to believe they are worthless 'lost causes' because they get told that as very young and impressionable children.

    Now, who in their right mind would tell a small child something hateful like that? Well, nobody. Nobody in their right mind, that is. But somebody must instill these terrible thoughts into their young minds, so who is it? Worthless parents who are 'lost causes' themselves?

    bingo.

    So we have these small children who are not learning basic math, and the reason is: their parents are telling them there is no point, that they have no future. Seems cruel, but it is easier to believe than a genetic difference. And, as you say, SOME do manage to work their way up even if their siblings do not. Because they 'made the right decisions' to learn even under social pressure not to. Probably because somebody, a teacher or perhaps even a social worker, managed to cause them to believe in themselves. Too bad that doesn't happen for most.

    "There are just too many households where people start off as poor and end up successful or where some poor children do very well while others in the same household turn out worthless to dismiss that individual efforts play a huge part in economic success. "
    And my belief is that most of those had help from our socialist government assistance programs.

    I remain firmly in belief that we cannot blame the poor for their own condition any more than we can blame them for not trying. Or for 'making bad decisions.'

    I also believe that government programs do help, and should be continued and expanded.
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