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Thread: Why Conservatives Win Elections but Lose The War

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    Quote Originally Posted by GROOT View Post
    I AM GROOT
    Well that's very brave of you to let us know you're Gay and yes, you had won the culture war on Gay rights before conservatives even started it.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    I wrote a lengthy analysis on how Liberal Identity Politics hurts the Democratic Party.

    Today I'm going to start a discussion Conservatives biggest problem that hurts their party. The Culture Wars.

    How many times have we seen it? Conservatives win elections by obtaining electoral support on culture issue only over the course of the time they are in power, to become demoralized when they accomplish no progress on the culture wars. In fact they lose ground. Their excuse for that is that if the elected officials they voted for just weren't conservative enough. If they were just conservative enough they'd win the culture wars. Which is delusional as it rarely ever happens that they win these culture battles.

    The Culture Wars, like Identity Politics, is a relatively recent phrase but they have been around since the dawn of our Republic. The Culture Wars in America have two defining characteristics. Conservatives start them and Liberals win them. Oh from time to time Conservatives may win a battle. Guns for example. But they have lost the overwhelming majority of the Culture War battles during the course of our history.

    The reason that this is a problem for conservatives politically is, that though they often rally support to win elections using culture war rhetoric, that they almost always, with very few exceptions, lose the battle. That leaves Liberals in the position that even though they have lost the election they have won the war. They still drive the nations political agenda. That's true even now with Trumps win and Republicans control of all branches of the federal government. Liberals are still driving the political agenda in our nation. Which I'm sure chafe's at conservative partisans.

    So why do conservatives start these culture wars and then proceed to lose them?

    Culture wars/battles almost always begin when a group, in response to change, becomes nostalgic for the way live had been previously and begin a fight to return to what, to them, was a preferable way of living. So why then do they lose? It's primarily because the battle they chose to fight has already been lost.

    There are all sorts of examples of this that can illustrate this. The Civil War being the biggest. The Slave Economy in the South was doomed once American industrial output exceeded agricultural output towards the middle of the 19th Century. Industrialization and slavery were incompatible. Industry required a large source of skilled free labor to prosper. Even before the first shot was fired in the Civil War, slavery was a lost cause.

    Other examples would be the conservative anti-Catholic culture war of the 1830's through 1850's was lost before it even started. Catholics in our nation had already been mainstreamed. There was no way to deny them access to our political process.

    Another example would be the conservative fight against the Civil Rights movement which started in the 1950's. They lost that battle even before they started it. When African Americans had fought to save our nation during the existential crises of WWII their access to the full franchise was assured. Fighting equal rights for African Americans at that point was already a lost cause.

    Same with Womens reproductive rights. The Roe vs. Wade decision has galvanized a cutlure war not just against abortion but against birth control in general. It's a battle conservative cultural warriors have already lost. Women now have access to birth control as a constitutionally protected privacy right and can now determine when and how they will start their families and how large they will be. Conservative cultural warriors win an occassional temporarly battle on abortion but the culture war for Womens reproductive rights they started was lost before it even bagan.

    Another example is the culture war on Gay rights. The culture ware was started by conservatives after there had been wide spread acceptance of Gays by family, friends, neighbors and co-workers. Again, the battle had been lost by the conservative culture warriors before it had even began.

    This is also true on the culture war battle conservatives have started on Muslims and Immigrants. They've already lost the battle before it has even started. Muslims are already broadly considered our Abrahamic bretheren in the American religious milieu. Latino immigrants are already mainstreaming and to many are our neighbors, friends and co-workers. Conservatives may have won the last election on those issues but they've already lost that battle, leaving Liberals to drive the nations political agenda.

    This is a great source of the anger and rancor that you see by partisan conservatives. It's a manifestation of their consistently losing the culture wars they start and liberals winning those battles and thus driving the political agenda.

    So as I'm sure conservative partisans like to point out how liberal social justice warriors harm the Democratic party, and they do, I'm reasonably sure that they don't want to hear the truth that conservative culture warriors do vastly more harm to the Republican party as they are the main reason that even when Republicans gain elected office and power they still lose the political battles leaving liberals to drive the agenda even when they are out of office.

    There's an old saying in politics of chose your battles wisely. That would not appear to be the case for conservative culture warriors. They appear to have a preference for starting battles they have already lost.
    This is outstanding. Rational. Full of fact. Outstanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    I wrote a lengthy analysis on how Liberal Identity Politics hurts the Democratic Party.

    Today I'm going to start a discussion Conservatives biggest problem that hurts their party. The Culture Wars.

    How many times have we seen it? Conservatives win elections by obtaining electoral support on culture issue only over the course of the time they are in power, to become demoralized when they accomplish no progress on the culture wars. In fact they lose ground. Their excuse for that is that if the elected officials they voted for just weren't conservative enough. If they were just conservative enough they'd win the culture wars. Which is delusional as it rarely ever happens that they win these culture battles.

    The Culture Wars, like Identity Politics, is a relatively recent phrase but they have been around since the dawn of our Republic. The Culture Wars in America have two defining characteristics. Conservatives start them and Liberals win them. Oh from time to time Conservatives may win a battle. Guns for example. But they have lost the overwhelming majority of the Culture War battles during the course of our history.

    The reason that this is a problem for conservatives politically is, that though they often rally support to win elections using culture war rhetoric, that they almost always, with very few exceptions, lose the battle. That leaves Liberals in the position that even though they have lost the election they have won the war. They still drive the nations political agenda. That's true even now with Trumps win and Republicans control of all branches of the federal government. Liberals are still driving the political agenda in our nation. Which I'm sure chafe's at conservative partisans.

    So why do conservatives start these culture wars and then proceed to lose them?

    Culture wars/battles almost always begin when a group, in response to change, becomes nostalgic for the way live had been previously and begin a fight to return to what, to them, was a preferable way of living. So why then do they lose? It's primarily because the battle they chose to fight has already been lost.

    There are all sorts of examples of this that can illustrate this. The Civil War being the biggest. The Slave Economy in the South was doomed once American industrial output exceeded agricultural output towards the middle of the 19th Century. Industrialization and slavery were incompatible. Industry required a large source of skilled free labor to prosper. Even before the first shot was fired in the Civil War, slavery was a lost cause.

    Other examples would be the conservative anti-Catholic culture war of the 1830's through 1850's was lost before it even started. Catholics in our nation had already been mainstreamed. There was no way to deny them access to our political process.

    Another example would be the conservative fight against the Civil Rights movement which started in the 1950's. They lost that battle even before they started it. When African Americans had fought to save our nation during the existential crises of WWII their access to the full franchise was assured. Fighting equal rights for African Americans at that point was already a lost cause.

    Same with Womens reproductive rights. The Roe vs. Wade decision has galvanized a cutlure war not just against abortion but against birth control in general. It's a battle conservative cultural warriors have already lost. Women now have access to birth control as a constitutionally protected privacy right and can now determine when and how they will start their families and how large they will be. Conservative cultural warriors win an occassional temporarly battle on abortion but the culture war for Womens reproductive rights they started was lost before it even bagan.

    Another example is the culture war on Gay rights. The culture ware was started by conservatives after there had been wide spread acceptance of Gays by family, friends, neighbors and co-workers. Again, the battle had been lost by the conservative culture warriors before it had even began.

    This is also true on the culture war battle conservatives have started on Muslims and Immigrants. They've already lost the battle before it has even started. Muslims are already broadly considered our Abrahamic bretheren in the American religious milieu. Latino immigrants are already mainstreaming and to many are our neighbors, friends and co-workers. Conservatives may have won the last election on those issues but they've already lost that battle, leaving Liberals to drive the nations political agenda.

    This is a great source of the anger and rancor that you see by partisan conservatives. It's a manifestation of their consistently losing the culture wars they start and liberals winning those battles and thus driving the political agenda.

    So as I'm sure conservative partisans like to point out how liberal social justice warriors harm the Democratic party, and they do, I'm reasonably sure that they don't want to hear the truth that conservative culture warriors do vastly more harm to the Republican party as they are the main reason that even when Republicans gain elected office and power they still lose the political battles leaving liberals to drive the agenda even when they are out of office.

    There's an old saying in politics of chose your battles wisely. That would not appear to be the case for conservative culture warriors. They appear to have a preference for starting battles they have already lost.
    This is bullshit. The “culture” wars have always been started by the left

    You are ignorant and uninformed.

    The queer marriage battle started over a judge in Taxachussetts. I agree that conservatives don’t fight battles well, but their ideas win

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    the republican cheating in elections is why the democratic party doesnt win Mott


    quit trashing the Democratic party
    Thank you. Just vote for the republican and be happy with your vote.

    Stop trying to turn Dems into Rep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TTQ64 View Post
    Thank you. Just vote for the republican and be happy with your vote.

    Stop trying to turn Dems into Rep.
    Did you even bother to read what I wrote?
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by I Love America View Post
    This is bullshit. The “culture” wars have always been started by the left

    You are ignorant and uninformed.

    The queer marriage battle started over a judge in Taxachussetts. I agree that conservatives don’t fight battles well, but their ideas win
    Denial is not just a river in Egypt. The historical facts say otherwise. Conservatives start the large majority of culture wars and liberals have won them.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by evince View Post
    the republican cheating in elections is why the democratic party doesnt win Mott


    quit trashing the Democratic party
    Do you even understand what a serious criticism of a major failing of the Republican Party I just made?
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    Homosexual culture? ... Even Cali. libs ... overwhelmingly ... voted against it.

    Hispanics? ... Our immigration laws are NOT racist.

    Muslims? ... even after 9/11, Americans did not run out and start massacring millions of American Muslims.


    Slavery? ... an old European socialist monarchial institution that the USA ended after 79 years because of Abolionist White Christian conservatives.
    This is not the first time I have seen this theme, this rhetorical exercise. It didn't even originate with Pigdog....he is merely parroting what others smarter than him have written and said.

    This could really be a PhD thesis in the psychological sciences when you get down to it. Conservatives are seemingly so internally ashamed of conservatism that they try to construct rhetorical universe where liberals were the reactionaries, and conservatives were actually the progressive heroes. There are so many elements of delusion, resentment, and projection present in those mental gymnastics, that it could keep a team of psychological researchers busy....for years perhaps!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
    They are aimed at the scary minorities and a tool to use the fear.
    ^ incorrect:

    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    Immigration reform /border security are not aimed at "immigrants".
    They are aimed at illegals or a failed system of chain immigration.

    But that was a very good written piece MOTT. well said and true about culture wars

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    mophead takes pseudo intellectual, pseudo ratonality TDS to a whole new level of sickness. congratulations. that is all. ...
    Even so, Come, Lord Jesus
    I do not participate in delusion count me out

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    Republicans take things to ridiculous extremes. I support gun rights, but screw them they take it too far. I'm pro-life, but screw them they take it too far. I'm Christian, but screw them they take it too far. I'm a supporter of Israel, but screw them they take it too far.

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    sorry.
    Even so, Come, Lord Jesus
    I do not participate in delusion count me out

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    The Condumbs think they are voting for a party that gives a shit about their issues. They are actually voting for the plutocrats to gain more power and money. If their eyes were open now they would see what Trump is doing and it is not for them. Build a wall and I will agree to moving even more tax money to the super rich. Trump did do that. What does this wall look like.?

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    Why Conservatives Win Elections but Lose The War

    "I wrote a lengthy analysis on how Liberal Identity Politics hurts the Democratic Party.
    Today I'm going to start a discussion Conservatives biggest problem that hurts their party." MH #1
    Merciful Heavens !! NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    MH, & many others:
    you have severely conflated "conservative" with "Republican", the party, not the principle.

    You could not POSSIBLY be more wrong.

    Republicans ARE NOT political conservatives.
    On behalf of the noble principles of conservatism I beg you:
    PLEASE do not enoble the disgraced* Republican party this way.
    "... the magnificently misnamed "neo-conservatives", are the most radical people in this town [Washington DC]" George Will / ABC-TV This Week July 16, 2006
    * "All honors wounds are self-inflicted." Andrew Carnegie
    The Democrats didn't do this to the Republican party.
    Republicans have done it to themselves, all by themselves.
    "It should be obvious to anyone why conservatives and libertarians should be against Trump. He has no grounding in belief. No core philosophy. No morals. No loyalty. No curiosity. No empathy and no understanding. He demands personal loyalty and not loyalty to the nation. His only core belief is in his own superiority to everyone else. His only want is exercise more and more personal power." smb / purveyor of fact 18/03/18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
    This is not the first time I have seen this theme, this rhetorical exercise. It didn't even originate with Pigdog....he is merely parroting what others smarter than him have written and said.

    This could really be a PhD thesis in the psychological sciences when you get down to it. Conservatives are seemingly so internally ashamed of conservatism that they try to construct rhetorical universe where liberals were the reactionaries, and conservatives were actually the progressive heroes. There are so many elements of delusion, resentment, and projection present in those mental gymnastics, that it could keep a team of psychological researchers busy....for years perhaps!
    Possibly but a moot point as far as I’m concerned as such ramblings, don’t really add to the conversation so I ignore them. Despite his dancing on the head of a pin the fact is that most of these culture wars are started by conservatives as a reaction to their already being well on the way towards acceptance. That is to say, the battle is already lost.

    Now not to be smug about it conservatives have won some culture war battles, such as guns and keeping religion in the public sphere, but where these two battles are different is that the are rare examples of starting a culture war that wasn’t already lost at the beginning. That is their position had wide acceptance. Those examples however are the exceptions and not the rule.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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