Althea told me...........
We agree. The premise of our disagreement is that pay should be commensurate with experience/ability. In skilled trades, that tends to happen automatically.Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich
In this economy, the majority of jobs are low skill/ability offerings. What used to be entry level, part time work, is now full time low wage employment. I'm sure the free market would allow for another $.25 for a burger, if it means a two income family can get off of food stamps.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Racism is a disease
Well, I'm not sure we agree then. I am adamantly opposed to the government setting minimum wages for private industry. Many small businesses hire unskilled labor and many are barely making ends meet. You force them to pay their employees more and they're going to let workers go to keep their business afloat. That will not only keep them on food stamps but put them on welfare and unemployment.
Judge Juan M. Merchan wrote that Trump “appears to take the position that his situation and this case are unique and that the pre-trial publicity will never subside. However, this view does not align with reality.”
cawacko (05-20-2018)
Althea told me...........
I'm pretty sure the govt is already setting minimum wage rates. Both Fed/State, governments. It has been shown that restaurants that do away with tipping, and hike the pay of waitstaff, see increased business coupled with better productivity from staff. The prices don't have to be raised, and even with a 10%-20% hike in prices, the customer pays less than if they tipped.
These small businesses you speak of would hike rates if necessary, which would more than be offset in the end by decreased demand on our social safety nets.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Insane Level of Addiction
Those who have moved to the no tipping policy have been very high end restaurants. No current reason to believe it will continue to all.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.new...experiment/amp
And as was stated minimum wage increases cost low income jobs and hurts those deemed at risk.
Verified User
If you libs really care about this you'd take these jobs and catch fish for these people so they could keep their businesses afloat.
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Althea,
Sounds like corporations were given 50 lashes on the back of the hand with a wet noodle.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Althea (05-22-2018)
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello DonaldvoTrumpovich,
To be precise, no we do not have a capitalist economy. We have an economy which is a mixture of capitalism and socialism. Some individuals earn their income, others have it given to them under socialist government programs. It doesn't matter how much you want to try to ignore that this part of our economy exists. It does.
A little crony capitalism goes a long way just as cheating has a larger effect than playing by the rules. The negative impact of win/lose philosophy exceeds the positive impact of win/win philosophy. Rule of law is the only thing which prevents anarchy.
Total misnomer. All Americans do not share the wealth of the stock market because most Americans cannot afford investments. Capitalism keeps them too stupid and poor to take advantage of that, by design.
Admirable, but insufficient to meet the need. It is, however, sufficient to make some feel good about it.
That is debatable. And if government is not doing a good job it is our fault. We created our own government and have the power to change it and improve it.
There is little difference between crony capitalism and crony government. Most corrupt government officials circumvent the law for personal profit, usually by allowing capitalists to break the law or the spirit of the law.
Why do you believe you have to choose between the two?
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Racism is a disease
To be precise, no we do not have a capitalist economy. We have an economy which is a mixture of capitalism and socialism. Some individuals earn their income, others have it given to them under socialist government programs. It doesn't matter how much you want to try to ignore that this part of our economy exists. It does.
Giving money to recipients via welfare is CHARITY, not a form of ECONOMY. Surely you can see the difference.
A little crony capitalism goes a long way just as cheating has a larger effect than playing by the rules. The negative impact of win/lose philosophy exceeds the positive impact of win/win philosophy. Rule of law is the only thing which prevents anarchy.
Yes, crony capitalism IS the exception rather than the rule. Yet, you lambast corporations and businesses as if it IS the rule. No system is perfect and free from criminal activity.
Total misnomer. All Americans do not share the wealth of the stock market because most Americans cannot afford investments. Capitalism keeps them too stupid and poor to take advantage of that, by design.
You couldn't be more wrong with this statement. All Americans can afford investing in the stock market. You can buy stock in many growth companies at $50 or less a share. And your last sentence is a total head-scratcher. Capitalism keeps poor people stupid and poor by design? Really? Got any proof of that? I respect your opinion but this one is really off-the-wall and makes zero sense. I'd like you to give me one, just one example of how capitalism keeps poor people stupid and poor by design. Just one.
Admirable, but insufficient to meet the need. It is, however, sufficient to make some feel good about it.
Insufficient to meet the need? Who determines "need"? You? Liberals? You think it's the government's responsibility to raise everyone out of poverty? You think government welfare is helping get the poor out of poverty? Really? Doesn't seem to be working very well.
That is debatable. And if government is not doing a good job it is our fault. We created our own government and have the power to change it and improve it.
Everything you've said is debatable as well. Doesn't make it wrong.
There is little difference between crony capitalism and crony government. Most corrupt government officials circumvent the law for personal profit, usually by allowing capitalists to break the law or the spirit of the law.
There is a HUGE difference between crony capitalism and crony government. If a corporation (like Enron, Arthur Andersen) engages in deceptive practices, they usually fail. That can't be said for the government. Our Congress currently has our nation in $21 debt, yet incumbents in Congress are re-elected at a > 90% rate. WV Senator Robert Byrd was a racist, yet he was continually re-elected for years, decades. Same can be said for SC Senator Strom Thurmond and NC Senator Jesse Helms. Congress is infested with those that have broken the law.
Why do you believe you have to choose between the two?
Because over the history of our nation, private industry has been much more successful than anything the government ever did. The government is the largest, most inefficient, most corrupt bureaucracy in the history of the world. And our capitalist economy is the wealthiest, most successful economy in the history of the world. I grew up middle-class but because I saved and invested smartly, I was able to accumulate a seven figure nest egg. Anybody can do it. Yeah, even poor people. There's a plethora of proof of people growing up in poverty becoming wealthy. Anybody in America can be successful if they do three things: Educate themselves, work hard and obey the law. That's all they need to do. Yeah, even poor people. I know because I've seen proof of it. I see proof of it every day.
Judge Juan M. Merchan wrote that Trump “appears to take the position that his situation and this case are unique and that the pre-trial publicity will never subside. However, this view does not align with reality.”
cawacko (05-22-2018)
Insane Level of Addiction
Look at that. Why don't you run for local office? Could use some more folks willing to give full throated support to capitalism.
Racism is a disease
You know, I've thought about it but I'd rather just enjoy my retirement and let the whackos run amok.
Judge Juan M. Merchan wrote that Trump “appears to take the position that his situation and this case are unique and that the pre-trial publicity will never subside. However, this view does not align with reality.”
Verified User
I have no sympathy for anyone who voted for Colonel Mustard. Whatever misfortunes are visited upon them, whatever the cause, I am there in spirit, rejoicing.
They must fuck off and die, and quickly. You voted for Trump, you aren't worthy of breathing.
Insane Level of Addiction
Watermark already has this shtick. You're going to have to come up something more creative.
PostmodernProphet (05-22-2018)
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello DonaldvoTrumpovich,
Businesses which require workers: cannot arbitrarily fire workers to save money because no work would be getting done to create profits. That would be similar to thinking that you could save gas by reducing the friction of having 4 wheels on the ground by removing one wheel. It won't work because the car requires 4 wheels in order to roll.
Besides, If we had no minimum wage we would have far more people on socialist government assistance programs. Taxes would have to be higher to fund that, so businesses would be hit at that end.
One of the many problems with capitalism is that it knows no boundaries. Capitalism seeks to increase profits by reducing labor costs. That means paying people as little as possible for working. The free market responds to the balance of supply and demand. If a) there are fewer jobs because capitalism sought to eliminate as many as possible in the zeal for more profits, and b) there are more job applicants because our population is constantly expanding, then c) wages will constantly be decreased. This will happen regardless of whether or not the income is a livable one.
I know this all makes it seem like capitalism can't work on it's own without government regulation. And the truth is exactly that. Capitalism would eat itself without proper government regulation and some socialism mixed in. That's why we have a balance of capitalism and socialism.
People who believe we have to choose between the two are mistaken. We will never have to make that choice. Our challenge is to figure out which areas of our economy require socialism, and which should be left to capitalism. Basically, it is indicated that the things people need should be done with socialism, and the things people want should be done with properly government-regulated capitalism.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
Racism is a disease
Once again, you're arguing to extremes (see bold red above). Not sure why you're consistently changing my points to make your points seem more valid.
I never implied that a business would fire ALL their workers. That's just absurd. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. And the car with three wheels is a ridiculous analogy.
Let me give you a better one.
I have a mom&pop Pizza restaurant with 10 employees. I'm barely making ends meet, paying the rent, meeting payroll, covering expenses. Then the gov't comes around and tells me I have to pay all my minimum wage workers (let's say there's five of them) $2 more an hour. Well, I have to pay rent, I have to buy dough, pizza sauce and cheese to stay in business but maybe I can get by with only four minimum wage workers instead of five. Guess what. That's what I'm going to do.
Now that's what you call a good analogy.
And again, I will say we agree that capitalism works using a combination of free markets and government intervention. When I said I preferred capitalism to socialism, I was making a point, not stating that capitalism can thrive with no laws to govern them. Again, you're distorting my narrative to make your argument appear stronger. It's called a Strawman argument. If you want to continue this discussion, please stop.
Judge Juan M. Merchan wrote that Trump “appears to take the position that his situation and this case are unique and that the pre-trial publicity will never subside. However, this view does not align with reality.”
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello DonaldvoTrumpovich,
The difference between the words 'charity' and 'economy' is apparent, but meaningless to this argument. The dole is part of the economy. Surely you are not denying that. Our economy includes the spending of people whose income is from the dole just as much as it counts the spending of those who earned their money through work or investing, or inheritance. Dollar for dollar. Money spent is money spent. The more money spent, the higher our GDP.
I think you mistakenly believe I am against having corporations or businesses. Not at all. We must have them. They are part of the economy. I simply believe they need to be better regulated, and that they should be paying more in taxes.
We are saying different things. I am saying whether or not it is possible for all Americans to invest, it is not occurring. Why not? Would you say that is because poor people are dumb? Because they make stupid choices and bring it all on themselves? Does poverty only exist because of ignorance? I don't think it is so simple.
I would not be so quick to blame the poor for their own condition. I think our system is designed to function in a way which requires that there be a certain proportion of poor, some in the middle, and as wealth increases above the middle, there are fewer and fewer individuals until the richest one person. If all the poor people suddenly worked their way up to the top, then the top would be the new bottom. The people who were at the top would not want their status to be surpassed, so they routinely support things which maintain the status quo. The Class War.
Crony capitalism depends on having a stupid populace which can be fooled into voting against their own better interest, and for the better interest of the power players which wield it. Some capitalistic ventures seek to profit from running education as a for-profit business. The problem is, they see public education as competition to be suppressed. So they routinely release PR and run propaganda battles to cut spending on public schools. This causes public schools to perform badly, which makes it easier for for-profit education to compete. Because the bar has been set lower.
Millions of Americans have worked their way out of poverty with the help of government assistance programs. The need for their services always exceeds their capacity to deliver them.
Perhaps this would be a good time to ensure that we are talking about the same thing. When I say 'crony capitalism' I am referring to those capitalists which use part of their profits to pay for lobbying, excessive campaign contributions, political PR campaigns, and other types of government pay-offs, to change laws for the sole purpose of increasing the profitability of the business, regardless of the downside, be it the environment, our very habitat, workers concerns, product safety, etc.
I don't think I ever heard the term 'crony government.' I am not familiar with any such common usage term.
No, that's not true. No private business ever landed a man on the moon.
No, I disagree. Sure, we've got our problems, no doubt of it, but I bet the Russian government is worse.
No. You're wrong. Just because you did it doesn't mean anybody can do it. Don't discount your accomplishments like that. You did it, and a lot of other people DIDN'T do it. But of course, some of those people may be happier than you. And it has been said that the secret to life is enjoying the passage of time. I have heard no wise men say the secret to life is to get rich. Unless, of course, you believe money buys happiness.
You're right. Some make it. Most who do had some help through government assistance programs, welfare, etc. HA! I was just thinking about it. Yes, even some Republicans who want to end assistance programs benefited from them. The hypocrites. But that doesn't matter. Some do earn their way up with no help at all. Either way, SOME people climb out of poverty and do better. The problem is we are creating more new poor people faster than socialist government assistance programs and self determination can lift them off the dole.
Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.
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