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Thread: Bernie Wants Jobs For Everyone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod View Post
    The people I met in Cuba were very happy. Money is simply not an important factor in their lives. They all have food and homes.
    So were all those rafts on their way to Miami just some kind of fucked up regatta?

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    Hello cawacko,

    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    We already have plenty of programs that we would call socialism in our economy.
    Yes. They are responsible for raising the level of lifestyle for millions. Though conservatives often claim capitalism did that.

    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    What Bernie and his MMT supporters are proposing would promote massive inflation and cause all kinds of damage to the economy.
    It has already been shown that McDonalds and Walmart could pay $15 with minimal impact on product pricing yet still remain profitable.
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    Hello cawacko,

    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    First off where is government pay being slashed? City and state governments determine their own pay. It's not a federal mandate. And people don't get (legally) rich working for the gov't while they do for the private sector. So it is the government that tries to keep up with pay to attract better people.

    Bernie's program is about hiring all people. Not all people have college degrees. So ultimately that point is irrelevant. People may work for the gov't because you can retire early and get a pension but it's not where you make money. And America didn't become the world's economic power because it created a bunch of government jobs. The private sector did that.
    Sounds as if you are arguing against some imaginary adversary who has proposed replacing all private sector jobs with government jobs. The only thing unseen here is this mysterious mythical adversary you seem to be in opposition to.

    The private sector is fantastic at building fortunes for some. Capitalism does begrudgingly provide some jobs along the way, but only wherever they are absolutely needed, and it will strive, seek and search relentlessly to find ways to eliminate every possible labor expense. That means it seeks to destroy private sector jobs. Even if it takes years, eventually the goal is to eliminate as many workers as possible because that's what capitalism does to improve profits. In the meantime, there will be jobs. Liberals do not have to argue to eliminate private sector jobs so that they can be replaced with government sector jobs. Capitalism and the private sector did that and will do that continuously ongoing.

    The only thing Team Bernie is arguing for is sensible jobs to rebuild our infrastructure because it makes such sense to do that. And the absurd thing is that it will actually benefit capitalism to do so because capitalism depends on infrastructure like humans depend on something like the climate remaining stable.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello cawacko,



    Yes. They are responsible for raising the level of lifestyle for millions. Though conservatives often claim capitalism did that.



    It has already been shown that McDonalds and Walmart could pay $15 with minimal impact on product pricing yet still remain profitable.
    Where does the wealth come from that our government redistributes? Just hot off the treasuries printing press?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello cawacko,



    Sounds as if you are arguing against some imaginary adversary who has proposed replacing all private sector jobs with government jobs. The only thing unseen here is this mysterious mythical adversary you seem to be in opposition to.

    The private sector is fantastic at building fortunes for some. Capitalism does begrudgingly provide some jobs along the way, but only wherever they are absolutely needed, and it will strive, seek and search relentlessly to find ways to eliminate every possible labor expense. That means it seeks to destroy private sector jobs. Even if it takes years, eventually the goal is to eliminate as many workers as possible because that's what capitalism does to improve profits. In the meantime, there will be jobs. Liberals do not have to argue to eliminate private sector jobs so that they can be replaced with government sector jobs. Capitalism and the private sector did that and will do that continuously ongoing.

    The only thing Team Bernie is arguing for is sensible jobs to rebuild our infrastructure because it makes such sense to do that. And the absurd thing is that it will actually benefit capitalism to do so because capitalism depends on infrastructure like humans depend on something like the climate remaining stable.
    I'm reading the WaPo article. He's talking about more than just infrastructure jobs. Again, we are talking hyper inflation. If it were that easy to print money we'd be doing it on a scale far larger than what we are doing now

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    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Even W was not a socialist. Love of socialism/communism is borne out of ignorance and/or stupidity.
    So either you are ignorant of socialism or you hate public education, our military, our roads and public transportation infrastructure, our public health services and public utilities etc., and think they are stupid?
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    This didn't work well for the USSR, nor anywhere else that I know it being attempted. B.S. simply is what his initials imply he is.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    This didn't work well for the USSR, nor anywhere else that I know it being attempted. B.S. simply is what his initials imply he is.
    Short, sweet and to the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cawacko View Post
    The government can't just create "better jobs". It doesn't work that way.
    Indeed. Since the government produces nothing it would be incredibly difficult for the government to "create" jobs.
    Excellence is an art won by training and habituation. We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but rather we have those because we have acted rightly. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
    - -- Aristotle

    Believe nothing on the faith of traditions, even though they have been held in honor for many generations and in diverse places. Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it. Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past. Do not believe what you yourself have imagined, persuading yourself that a God inspires you. Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests. After examination, believe what you yourself have tested and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.
    - -- The Buddha

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    - -- Aristotle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Indeed. Since the government produces nothing it would be incredibly difficult for the government to "create" jobs.
    Going through the thread you'll be surprised how many people believe they do. Better jobs than the private sector in fact.

    Edit: Oh, and you're racist if you don't support socialism. I learned that as well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Indeed. Since the government produces nothing it would be incredibly difficult for the government to "create" jobs.
    Other than with military contracts, you are correct.
    Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    This didn't work well for the USSR, nor anywhere else that I know it being attempted. B.S. simply is what his initials imply he is.
    Yet Libertarianism turned Somalia into a paradise? Strawman.
    You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    Yet Libertarianism turned Somalia into a paradise? Strawman.
    Somalia is not libertarian, it is the most COMMUNIST country on the planet, today.



    And North Korea is the MOST Socialist.
    "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
    — Joe Biden on Obama.

    Socialism is just the modern word for monarchy.

    D.C. has become a Guild System with an hierarchy and line of accession much like the Royal Court or priestly classes.

    Private citizens are perfectly able of doing a better job without "apprenticing".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mott the Hoople View Post
    So either you are ignorant of socialism or you hate public education, our military, our roads and public transportation infrastructure, our public health services and public utilities etc., and think they are stupid?
    How are you defining "socialism"?
    "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
    — Joe Biden on Obama.

    Socialism is just the modern word for monarchy.

    D.C. has become a Guild System with an hierarchy and line of accession much like the Royal Court or priestly classes.

    Private citizens are perfectly able of doing a better job without "apprenticing".

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    What Bernie is doing here is presenting the notion of a guaranteed basic income...in a way he thinks might appeal to a greater number than has accepted it so far.

    A guaranteed basic income is inevitable...whether it comes as the result of thoughtful, reasonable changes society makes because of changes that have happened to society...

    ...or as the result of civil war fought as the savages we humans apparently have not totally shed.

    I hope it happens via the former...I dread that it is more likely it will happen via the latter.

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