It's become as American as apple pie and baseball,

[rjhenn]

Nah, you can look up forty years, I'll just give you last year's

https://everytownresearch.org/gun-vi...y-the-numbers/

Before you start comparing it to auto deaths, keep in mind that autos primarily purpose ain't to kill something, also, the auto is used quadruple times in one hour more than all the guns in America are used in a year, probably forty years not counting wars

And if you are next going to tell us next gun deaths have declined while gun sales has increased, forget that also, you can't prove causation, especially considering there exists an array of variables that explain it better

For something whose primary purpose is supposedly to kill people, guns aren't really used to kill very many people, not when you consider that there is about one for every person in the country. If they were the problem you imagine they were, one would expect millions of deaths each year. The fact that gun deaths have declined while gun sales have increased tells us that your fears about guns are not rational. While autos, whose primary purpose is something completely different, are used to kill more people than guns are.

[cawacko]

For something whose primary purpose is supposedly to kill people, guns aren't really used to kill very many people, not when you consider that there is about one for every person in the country. If they were the problem you imagine they were, one would expect millions of deaths each year. The fact that gun deaths have declined while gun sales have increased tells us that your fears about guns are not rational. While autos, whose primary purpose is something completely different, are used to kill more people than guns are.

Pretty surprising to hear a liberal on this board make that argument but kudos.

[rjhenn]

I was just anticipating the two "arguments" most often employed by gun lovers, and you did hit on one

"Dramatically, no, continuously, yes, but it has nothing to do with the increase of guns in America, as I explained above, and especially since the total number of guns has increased but the number of gun owners has decreased

Yet that decrease in the homicide rate argues against your paranoia about guns. The decrease is most likely due to taking the lead out of gasoline, leading to a generation less prone to violent impulses. That's the direction we need to focus on, what makes people misuse guns. Gun control is wasted effort.

[rjhenn]

Why does his race matter?

Because some people are racists, thus it just has to matter. To them.

[rjhenn]

and a college educated Vegan with African heritage took him out with his bare hands

It only took a good guy

no gun

Where does the article say anything about "a college educated Vegan with African heritage"? And he didn't "take him out", just wrestled the gun away and made him run away.

[rjhenn]

and his gun nut dad gave him back his guns

"gun nut dad" based on nothing at all.

[rjhenn]

30,000+ gun deaths a year. Year in. Year out.

And even more traffic deaths.

[rjhenn]

And the reasons, asshole. Remember the reasons...

European Murder Rates Compared to the United States: Demographics vs Guns

When the subject is gun control, those who demand more for the United States always point to Europe. Europe, they say, has more gun control than the United States, and lower murder rates. Europe, of course, is a diverse place. Some places have lots of guns and low murder rates. Some places have few guns and higher murder rates. The reason that many developed European countries have murder rates much lower than the United States is not guns or gun control. It is demographics.

In 2006 the Department of Justice issued a report on violent felons in large urban counties. It covered the period from 1990 to 2002, and included the 75 most populous counties in the United States. The study accounted for over half of all the murders in the United States in the covered period.

Revealed in the study was a simple breakdown of the demographics of the murderers that is not commonly available. Murderers were divided into three groups. Blacks were the most numerous at 46%. Hispanics were next at 27 percent. Non-Hispanic whites were last at 23 percent.

While the study does not account for all murders in the period studied, it accounts for more than half and almost certainly slightly understates the percentages of Black murderers, because the latest FBI statistics (for 2010) show that when all the murders in the U.S are taken into account, the percentage of Black murderers is over 53 percent.
No one would dispute that there are several distinct cultures among the American black population. No one would dispute that none of these cultures exist in Europe in any statistically significant numbers. Some of the Black American subcultures probably have very low murder rates. We cannot tell because we do not have the data to distinguish between them.

Similarly, there are a number of distinct Hispanic cultures in the United States. These are all derived from cultures in Mexico, Central and South America, and the Caribbean. They are not Spanish or Portuguese. No one would argue that any statistical number of these populations exist in Europe. No doubt, some of these cultures also have very low murder rates, but without data, we cannot separate them out.

Where does that lead us? If we take the 23 percent figure for non-Hispanic whites to be representative for the entire population (remember, it is likely a good bit lower), then the number of murders committed by non-Hispanic and non-black people in the United States for 2010 would be 2989.

The population of non-Hispanic whites for 2010 was 196.8 million. Applying the 2989 murders to this population gives a murder rate of 1.52 per 100,000 population. We cannot get a more precise figure unless we have more demographic data than that given. Asian-Americans, for example, have historically had very low murder rates, but we do not have the data. The 1.52 per 100,000 murder rate is right in the middle of the murder rate of developed European countries. Add the Black and Hispanic numbers back into the mix and apply to the entire United States population, and the murder rate goes up to 4.8 per 100,000. Guns or gun control simply do not correlate to higher murder rates, particularly when you consider that non-Hispanic Whites own guns at much higher rates than do Blacks or Hispanics in the United States.

There are huge numbers of German-Americans, English-Americans, Greek-Americans, Italian-Americans, Scandinavian and Swiss-Americans in the United States. There are no statistically significant numbers of African-American or Hispanic-Americans in Europe.

As a check, you might consider a non-European example. Japan has extreme gun control and extremely low murder rates. The FBI used to track murders by Japanese-Americans before 1980, when access to firearms was relatively easy. The murder rate of Japanese Americans was less than half that of Japanese in Japan.

Murder rates are driven by cultural background, not by the instrument used.
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/search?...phics+vs+Guns+

Indeed. As has been stated before, if you remove less than a dozen gang-infested inner-city areas from the statistics, the U.S. is just as safe as most Western European countries. Even with those aeas included, the U.S. has one of the lowest homicide rates in the Western Hemisphere.

[rjhenn]

Back to the racist cherry picking again, cunt.

Keep floundering.

Reality is not racist. Denying reality is racist.

[rjhenn]

30,000+ gun deaths a year. Year in. Year out.

Tops in the industrialized world. We’re #1!

Again, Japan, with some of the strictest gun laws in the world, has a suicide rate that exceeds our combined homicide and suicide rates. Brazil, with very strict gun laws and 2/3 our population, has twice as many annual gun deaths as we do. Tou're obsessed with guns and gun deaths. Our problem isn't guns. It's mainly a few subcultures that are predisposed to violent behavior.

[rjhenn]

30,000+

And if you could get rid of all of the guns, you'd still have the behavior, and most of those deaths. But if you could do something about the behavior, the guns wouldn't matter.

[rjhenn]

"Murder rates are driven by cultural background, not by the instrument used."



Is the subject not mass shootings in America?

Is there any question what cultural background is behind more mass shootings in America than any other .. including Muslims?

Mass shootings are a tiny fraction of total homicides. They just get a lot more media attention.

[rjhenn]

Not being able to see the obvious problem with guns in this country.

That problem is only "obvious" to those who are obsessed with guns. If you actually look at the real world, it's obvious that the real problem is something else, likely several things other than simply guns.

[archives]

For something whose primary purpose is supposedly to kill people, guns aren't really used to kill very many people, not when you consider that there is about one for every person in the country. If they were the problem you imagine they were, one would expect millions of deaths each year. The fact that gun deaths have declined while gun sales have increased tells us that your fears about guns are not rational. While autos, whose primary purpose is something completely different, are used to kill more people than guns are.

Thirty thousand plus a year are killed by guns, and a large part of that is preventable, that is the key, your talking about innocent people being shot. Your comparison to the number of people and guns out there doesn't make sense, like saying we shouldn't worry about a rash of airplane failures cause we got thousands and thousands of airplanes out there

And as I said there is no proof of causation between declining gun deaths and rising gun ownership, there are numerous variable that explain it better, for example the mere fact the population is getting older, yesterday's wannabe gangsters are now grandfathers

Plus the number of total guns has increased, but the number of actual gun owners has decreased, meaning the same people are buying more guns rather than a proliferation of guns reducing gun deaths

[archives]

For something whose primary purpose is supposedly to kill people, guns aren't really used to kill very many people, not when you consider that there is about one for every person in the country. If they were the problem you imagine they were, one would expect millions of deaths each year. The fact that gun deaths have declined while gun sales have increased tells us that your fears about guns are not rational. While autos, whose primary purpose is something completely different, are used to kill more people than guns are.

Thirty thousand plus a year are killed by guns, and a large part of that is preventable, that is the key, your talking about innocent people being shot. Your comparison to the number of people and guns out there doesn't make sense, like saying we shouldn't worry about a rash of airplane failures cause we got thousands and thousands of airplanes out there

And as I said there is no proof of causation between declining gun deaths and rising gun ownership, there are numerous variable that explain it better, for example the mere fact the population is getting older, yesterday's wannabe gangsters are now grandfathers

Plus the number of total guns has increased, but the number of actual gun owners has decreased, meaning the same people are buying more guns rather than a proliferation of guns reducing gun deaths