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Thread: I Miss Martin Luther King

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    Hello DonaldvoTrumpovich,

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    Wow! So there's quite a bit more we disagree on (bolded above).

    Where are you getting the following statements? These look more like your perspective and not rooted in fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Capitalism relentlessly reduces cost, eliminates jobs, reduces job benefits, squeezes people out of the middle class, adds to poverty, and increases demand for government assistance services, which causes them to become overwhelmed and spread thin, reducing what's available. This serves as an incentive for the poor to try to work their way out of poverty.
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    Squeezes people out of the middle class? adds to poverty? - Just the opposite.
    You are absolutely correct that the opposite occurs. But it simply does not always occur. Over all, over time, the middle class is evaporating. Some are becoming rich, most are becoming poor. Most people don't understand how extreme wealth inequality currently is in the USA. This short video explains the difference between what people THINK wealth inequality is, and what it REALLY is. Bottom line - it's way more unequal than most people think:

    Wealth Inequality in the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Capitalism also constantly tells young girls they should become young mothers, as if that is natural and expected of everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    Huh? How is that so? Examples please.
    A regular barrage of advertisements and magazine articles aimed at young parenthood by corporations wishing to sell the products for parenting. I believe there is even a magazine of that exact name. Numerous TV shows depicting young families. Toys for young girls are themed as if it is expected of them to become mothers. The conditioning begins early. Young girls play with baby dolls, pretend to be like their mom, feeding baby, changing diapers, etc, as play. Capitalism is happy to make a buck supplying the toy baby dolls, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Capitalism also makes lots of money glorifying sex, violence and drug culture.
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    Another Huh??? How do companies like Home Depot, Walt Disney, Proctor & Gamble, Walmart, Verizon glorify sex, violence, drugs?
    Mostly they don't, aside from some clothing, movies and music that Walmart sells. And those were not the companies I had in mind. When we talk of capitalism we don't get to cherry-pick the most wholesome examples. Capitalism also includes Victoria's Secret, Girls Gone Wild, Las Vegas whores, Strip joints, Hiring a stripper for a bachelor's party, Sex Accessory Shops, peep shows, the porn industry, Nudie magazines, porn websites, Lap Dance bars, etc. Capitalism includes the thriving gun industry, Gansta Rap, Rambo etc, and music glorifying the drug culture. Look at the movie industry. Certainly, you must admit there are movies which do not promote family values...

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    I think you're applying this to a small sample size of American companies and using a broad brush to describe capitalism.
    Nope. Just being all inclusive of everything that makes up capitalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Capitalism has produced poor family values, and it has put a giant squeeze on poor blacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    Again, how has capitalism put a giant squeeze on poor blacks? And what's a "giant squeeze" anyway?
    The squeeze would be the financial stress of being unable to earn enough to own a home despite working or commuting 50-60 hours per week.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    I'm just not getting where you're coming from. The thing that makes America great is our capitalist, free-market system.
    No, that's only part of it. Our diversity of cultures, views, creativity and approaches to problem-solving are prominent factors in making America great. And despite the lofty sounding description, we cannot have a completely free-market system. There must be regulation to prevent the selfish and greedy from taking advantage of the unsuspecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    It's the best in the world and the envy of the rest of the world.
    We do have the largest economy. However there are nations which enjoy more freedom than we do, and there are populations which are happier than we are, healthier, live longer, have fewer shootings, etc. I do not agree we are the envy of the rest of the world. Certainly some, but not all.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    Many middle class families have become wealthy from investing in capitalism. Yours truly is an example. You say capitalism needs to be balanced with socialism but I'm not sure I trust our government to do a good job of this.
    It is true many become wealthy. And all too often the cost of that wealth is investing in things that extract wealth from the poor. A diversified portfolio would include many examples of wealth extraction from the poor. All it would have to have would be a big bank which strings the poor along with credit card debt. The capitalization for 'Buy-Here-Pay-Here' car lots is a huge wealth extractor, just like payday loan joints.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    The bigger the government, the more inefficient, wasteful and corrupt it becomes and our Federal Government is the biggest bureaucracy in the history of the world. I don't trust it to do a good job on just about anything.
    It doesn't matter whether you trust government or not. It's all we have to regulate our capitalism. If our self-made government is not serving us well then it is up to us to fix it. We have no other choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    Sorry but I can't agree with much of what you've said above. I believe in capitalism. Sure, it's not perfect and does require some governmental oversight but it's the best economic system in the world and sure beats socialism.
    The thing is: we don't have to choose between capitalism and socialism. We already blend the two. The poor in the USA live by a higher standard that most of the rest of the world. Capitalism didn't do that. Socialism did. If we never instituted Social Security, Unemployment Compensation, Medicare, Medicaid, The New Deal, etc, our poor would live like rats in ramshackle shanties, smelly and begging on the streets. Capitalism failed to utilize that great potential of possible productivity and failed to provide adequate incomes or wealth for our poor. Government socialism stepped in where capitalism failed.

    You say capitalism is not perfect, but what do you mean by that? I have tried to point out some of the ways it is not perfect, but you don't seem to want to admit there are any. Perhaps you could describe what *you* had in mind as an imperfection of capitalism. I think a huge example is right in our face with black poverty in the USA.
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    Hello Bigdog,

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    As demonstrated by the generational welfare cycle ... the purpose of socialism is to impede upward class mobility.

    Capitalism allows class mobility, and that is why the Blue Blood Lefty Elite Snobs have such hatred for it.
    Class mobility is not always upward. Sadly, it is predominantly downward in the USA. And I believe there are just as many rich conservative snobs (just like our president,) if not more.

    It makes no sense that those who have become rich through capitalism hate it. That is illogical.
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    King loved generating drama and conflict. That is what ultimately killed him.

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  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Minister of Truth For This Post:

    Bigdog (04-09-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello Bigdog,



    Class mobility is not always upward. Sadly, it is predominantly downward in the USA. And I believe there are just as many rich conservative snobs (just like our president,) if not more.

    It makes no sense that those who have become rich through capitalism hate it. That is illogical.
    The generational welfare cycle of socialism ensures they stay at the bottom.

    We see filthy rich libs, like the silicon valley and hollywood elite, constantly condemn capitalism. Now that they got theirs, they don't want the lower class people trying to join thier royal court.

    Pres. Trump is hated by the Leftist elites because they perceive him to be low class. The Left has show their utter hatred for the lower and middle class, ... especially if they are white. It's a total "class" thing for the Left. Watch how often they use the term, .... how oftern they demonize poor whites.
    "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
    — Joe Biden on Obama.

    Socialism is just the modern word for monarchy.

    D.C. has become a Guild System with an hierarchy and line of accession much like the Royal Court or priestly classes.

    Private citizens are perfectly able of doing a better job without "apprenticing".

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    Hello Bigdog,

    We agree on a few things, but mostly we disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    The generational welfare cycle of socialism ensures they stay at the bottom.
    I must agree this effect exists. While some are able to escape this sad cycle, and the help provided by our government assistance programs made that possible for them, most are still unable to. And worse yet, the system encourages them to have more children. That's the part that makes no sense to me. How is that not like: feeding stray cats and not expecting more stray cats?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    We see filthy rich libs, like the silicon valley and hollywood elite, constantly condemn capitalism. Now that they got theirs, they don't want the lower class people trying to join thier royal court.
    No, I don't see that. And seriously, even if you could provide an example or two, celebrities are hardly representative of all liberals. Sounds like a meaningless stereotype to me. Pointing out areas where we've gotten things wrong is not condemning capitalism. It is a necessary part of identifying areas which need improvement. Nothing says we have to choose between capitalism and socialism. We can have the best of both. And we deserve that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    Pres. Trump is hated by the Leftist elites because they perceive him to be low class.
    I agree. That is going on. I personally disagree with hating anybody; but that, nor all the money in the world, does not make President Trump high class. He is pure no class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    The Left has show their utter hatred for the lower and middle class, ... especially if they are white.
    No, I disagree with that. The left is more for the middle class and poor while the right favors the rich. I have heard it said (and it gives cause to wonder) that: 'If you make under a hundred thousand and you are voting Republican then you are a fool.' I don't know if I think that is an absolute, but it certainly speaks to a lot of people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    It's a total "class" thing for the Left.
    I think your perception of the left is incorrect. It is a popular one among Trump supporters, but plenty of things that get repeated often enough are widely believed, although simply not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    Watch how often they use the term,
    The term 'class' is in the English language and it's how we refer to social or economic strata. It is used by by both sides of the political spectrum. The left talks about he plight of the middle class and the poor out of compassion and concern, but that doesn't mean the left is all about class. I disagree with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdog View Post
    .... how oftern they demonize poor whites.
    No, I don't see liberals demonizing poor whites. I see them supporting programs to help the poor regardless of race. I see them supporting raising taxes on the rich to pay for compassionate government-run social assistance programs. I see them supporting unions and the right for workers of all races to form and join unions to ensure worker rights.

    The people I see demonizing the poor are conservatives who blame the poor for their own condition. I see conservatives saying the poor are lazy and unwilling to work, saying it is their own fault if they are poor in the 'land of opportunity.' How many times have we heard a conservative who worked their way up from nothing saying that if they could to it then anybody could? And that sounds so believable. Why can't anybody do it?

    The answers are not simple; but they are there.

    Nearly half the nation has virtually no savings. 40 million Americans struggle financially. Why are none of these people able to 'do it' like that conservative voice says anybody can? Nearly half the nation isn't rich. Far from it. That's 160 million answers that are there; and not so simple.

    Is there laziness? Sure there is. Is that the only answer? No, not at all. Do millions of poor people work all day? Yes they do. Is it possible to work all day and remain poor? Happens every day.

    Maybe some are not even trying to be rich because they don't see money as the end-all be-all of life. Maybe some people value families, together time, socialization and enjoying life more than being a workaholic and trying to post the biggest number for bank account balance bragging rights. Of all things imaginable, some people may have actually decided that there is more to life than working as much and hard as possible! I know this is a weakness in the relentless capitalistic competition for wealth, but at some point somebody is going to wonder just what all this wealth accumulation is good for, ya know?

    If the human race is never to be allowed to stop and smell the roses, why should there be roses?

    Just because some can work their way up from nothing and achieve great riches doesn't mean everyone can, nor does it mean they should even try or be required to. It's pretty hard to expect someone who had a bad childhood to understand the things people who had a good childhood understand. There is a big difference between beginning from a position of believing in oneself and being told as a child that one will never amount to anything - and believing it.
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    The majority of poor in the US are White, and the Left hates them with a passion.

    And the Left pushes the meme that the majority of all white Americans are white supremacists.

    If liberals had the compassion they claim ... we'd all be calling them Mother Theresa. They are just angry, stingy crooks and con artists.

    You demean Donald as being lower than low class. Thanks for confirming the Left's class warfare to hold down the lower classes.

    If wealth accumulation is worthless, why does Meryl Streep hoard $90 million.

    Oprah had a horrible childhood ... she's now the richest woman in America. Richer than even Meryl Streep.

    In the Santa Claus socialism you describe, you'd be a stupid chump if you worked a job.
    Last edited by Bigdog; 04-10-2018 at 12:10 PM.
    "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
    — Joe Biden on Obama.

    Socialism is just the modern word for monarchy.

    D.C. has become a Guild System with an hierarchy and line of accession much like the Royal Court or priestly classes.

    Private citizens are perfectly able of doing a better job without "apprenticing".

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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello DonaldvoTrumpovich,

    You are absolutely correct that the opposite occurs. But it simply does not always occur. Over all, over time, the middle class is evaporating. Some are becoming rich, most are becoming poor.
    I won't believe that until you provide me with proof. You shouldn't believe it either without proof. Your video is interesting but many graphs and metrics can be skewed to make a certain point. One thing the video said was "We all know that Socialism isn't the answer" which I wholeheartedly agree with.
    Most people don't understand how extreme wealth inequality currently is in the USA. This short video explains the difference between what people THINK wealth inequality is, and what it REALLY is. Bottom line - it's way more unequal than most people think:

    Wealth Inequality in the USA

    Of course it's unequal. People are different. Some people work harder than others. Some people are smarter than others. Some people have better skills than others. What's wrong with that? There will always be people with more and some people with less. That's life. Do you really think "taking from the rich and giving to the poor" will make things equal or better? I certainly don't. And I don't lose sleep over the video. Just because people have a flawed perception of wealth distribution doesn't mean that something should be done about it. I'm sure people have a flawed perception of the vastness of the Milky Way or the size of an atom. I commend people that work hard and become the 1%ers. They didn't get there by accident. Nothing was handed to them. They EARNED it.


    A regular barrage of advertisements and magazine articles aimed at young parenthood by corporations wishing to sell the products for parenting. I believe there is even a magazine of that exact name. Numerous TV shows depicting young families. Toys for young girls are themed as if it is expected of them to become mothers.
    The conditioning begins early. Young girls play with baby dolls, pretend to be like their mom, feeding baby, changing diapers, etc, as play. Capitalism is happy to make a buck supplying the toy baby dolls, etc.

    Young girls have been playing with dolls for over 100 years. Come on!!! Capitalism sells what people want. They don't have an agenda to turn young girls into mothers. Their main agenda is to make a profit and what's wrong with that? Like I said before, without the American Free-Market, capitalist system, you don't have the Industrial Revolution, you don't have the Technology/Internet revolution, you don't have what makes America great.

    Mostly they don't, aside from some clothing, movies and music that Walmart sells. And those were not the companies I had in mind. When we talk of capitalism we don't get to cherry-pick the most wholesome examples. Capitalism also includes Victoria's Secret, Girls Gone Wild, Las Vegas whores, Strip joints, Hiring a stripper for a bachelor's party, Sex Accessory Shops, peep shows, the porn industry, Nudie magazines, porn websites, Lap Dance bars, etc. Capitalism includes the thriving gun industry, Gansta Rap, Rambo etc, and music glorifying the drug culture. Look at the movie industry. Certainly, you must admit there are movies which do not promote family values...

    With all due respect, you really sound like a prude. Freedom is being able to choose your lifestyle without government interaction. I had a stripper at my bachelor party and many of my friends did as well. It didn't corrupt our minds and turn us into rapists or perverts. To be honest, I think prostitution should be legal and regulated. Making it illegal doesn't make it go away. It just allows the criminal element to profit from it and exploit the women. And I'm not cherry-picking. in fact, you are. You're singling out a few corporate "bad apples" and applying it to the majority. Fact is, most corporations play by the rules, employ millions of Americans, provide good benefits to their employees like health insurance and retirement plans. I grew up middle-class but I worked for a large corporation for 30 years, saved my money, invested wisely and it yielded a seven figure retirement nest egg. I never would've been able to do that without capitalism.

    Nope. Just being all inclusive of everything that makes up capitalism.

    The squeeze would be the financial stress of being unable to earn enough to own a home despite working or commuting 50-60 hours per week.

    No, that's only part of it. Our diversity of cultures, views, creativity and approaches to problem-solving are prominent factors in making America great. And despite the lofty sounding description, we cannot have a completely free-market system. There must be regulation to prevent the selfish and greedy from taking advantage of the unsuspecting.
    I agree we must pass legislation to prevent businesses who break the law but most business play by the rules. In fact, businesses who took advantage of consumers were more prevalent 50-100 years ago but things have changed for the better now. Why can't you see that? Do some research and see what it was like for workers 50-100 years ago.


    We do have the largest economy. However there are nations which enjoy more freedom than we do, and there are populations which are happier than we are, healthier, live longer, have fewer shootings, etc. I do not agree we are the envy of the rest of the world. Certainly some, but not all.

    It is true many become wealthy. And all too often the cost of that wealth is investing in things that extract wealth from the poor. A diversified portfolio would include many examples of wealth extraction from the poor. All it would have to have would be a big bank which strings the poor along with credit card debt. The capitalization for 'Buy-Here-Pay-Here' car lots is a huge wealth extractor, just like payday loan joints.
    Where are you getting this wealth at the expense of exploitation of the poor? Please provide proof because I don't see it. The poor have just as much rights as the wealthy. They have the freedom to be wealthy and they have the freedom to be poor. They've chosen the latter. They are not poor because of wealthy people. I truly believe that in America, if you work hard, educate yourself and abide by the law, anybody can be as successful as they want to be. I see proof of it every day. People who grew up in poverty who are now at the top tier of the socio-economic ladder.

    It doesn't matter whether you trust government or not. It's all we have to regulate our capitalism. If our self-made government is not serving us well then it is up to us to fix it. We have no other choice.

    The thing is: we don't have to choose between capitalism and socialism. We already blend the two. The poor in the USA live by a higher standard that most of the rest of the world. Capitalism didn't do that. Socialism did. If we never instituted Social Security, Unemployment Compensation, Medicare, Medicaid, The New Deal, etc, our poor would live like rats in ramshackle shanties, smelly and begging on the streets. Capitalism failed to utilize that great potential of possible productivity and failed to provide adequate incomes or wealth for our poor. Government socialism stepped in where capitalism failed.

    You say capitalism is not perfect, but what do you mean by that? I have tried to point out some of the ways it is not perfect, but you don't seem to want to admit there are any. Perhaps you could describe what *you* had in mind as an imperfection of capitalism. I think a huge example is right in our face with black poverty in the USA.
    You are making way too many assumptions with little proof. Regarding the negative influence of capitalism, I think you're really taking an extreme view. In fact, in may ways, you remind me of my parents in the 60s and what they were saying about Elvis Presley and The Beatles. They were appalled when they saw Elvis gyrate his hips and when they saw Mick Jagger singing "I just want to make love to you" on TV.
    What would you prefer? The government making then decisions on what is "appropriate" to sell? I sure don't. I agree that there are some aspects of capitalism that need to be regulated. Look at Facebook as an example. Do you really think Mark Zuckerberg maliciously formatted Facebook to take advantage of people's privacy to improve his bottom line? I don't. I remember growing up in the 50s & 60s, there were kids toys that were outright dangerous. Cars didn't have seat belts, windshields weren't made of safety glass. Buildings didn't have proper fire safety measures. That's what I mean by capitalism isn't perfect.
    Many changes have been made to make products safer. Not only from new regulations, but because consumers want safer products and the businesses that give customers what they want are the ones that succeed.
    But like I said before, the government is the most bloated, inefficient, corrupt entity in the world. And it's only getting bigger. You can't rely on the government to fix everything wrong in America. It can't and in some ways only makes things worse. Look at Bush Jr's attempt to get low-income people to buy homes. He encouraged banks to give mortgages without a down-payment and millions of low-income people bought homes.

    But, when they couldn't keep up with the payments, we had a mortgage crisis and, in 2008 it merged into the biggest economic crisis since the Great Depression. All because Bush Jr and the government wanted to help the poor. I do not agree with giving the poor a stipend, Section 8 housing, food stamps, medicaid etc. You're rewarding failure and keeping the poor in that cycle of poverty.
    America stands for freedom. Americans have the freedom to be wealthy or poor. Freedom doesn't mean everyone should be middle class. It means some people are willing to work very hard to be successful and some aren't.
    Last edited by Joe Capitalist; 04-14-2018 at 10:46 AM.
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    Hello DonaldvoTrumpovich,

    Quote Originally Posted by DonaldvoTrumpovich View Post
    "I agree we must pass legislation to prevent businesses who break the law but most business play by the rules. In fact, businesses who took advantage of consumers were more prevalent 50-100 years ago but things have changed for the better now. Why can't you see that? Do some research and see what it was like for workers 50-100 years ago.
    I saw some numbers the other day on the news. The CFPB has returned something like hundreds of millions of dollars from big banks and other lenders to consumers.

    That was under President Obama, and the brainchild of Senator Warren.

    President Trump has killed that. He put the CFPB's most ardent enemy, someone beholden to big banks and lenders, Mick Mulvaney, in there as the acting director.

    Do you know how many millions of dollars have been returned to consumers since that happened?

    None.

    Do you know how much the new government agency created under President Obama returned to consumers before Mulvaney took over? Do you have any idea how much money that was ripped off from every day people was actually returned to them by the CFPB before Trump's pick took over?

    $12 Billion.

    That's wealth extraction.

    Helping big powerful corporations rip people off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoliTalker View Post
    Hello DonaldvoTrumpovich,

    I saw some numbers the other day on the news. The CFPB has returned something like hundreds of millions of dollars from big banks and other lenders to consumers.

    That was under President Obama, and the brainchild of Senator Warren.

    President Trump has killed that. He put the CFPB's most ardent enemy, someone beholden to big banks and lenders, Mick Mulvaney, in there as the acting director.

    Do you know how many millions of dollars have been returned to consumers since that happened?

    None.

    Do you know how much the new government agency created under President Obama returned to consumers before Mulvaney took over? Do you have any idea how much money that was ripped off from every day people was actually returned to them by the CFPB before Trump's pick took over?

    $12 Billion.

    That's wealth extraction.

    Helping big powerful corporations rip people off.
    Okay, that's one example but again, small sample size and doesn't justify your comment "Helping big powerful corporations rip people off" because one example doesn't extrapolate to "big powerful corporations". Again, I worked for one of those "big powerful corporations" for 30 years and they treated me very well. In fact, with their generous, company matching 401k, I was able to end up with a very generous retirement account.
    Look at the companies in the Dow 30 and S&P 500. Great companies like Walmart, Microsoft, Merck, Exxon/Mobile, Apple, Proctor & Gamble, Verizon. Millions of Americans invest in these companies and are rewarded with excellent stock returns and dividends. Another example of the power of free markets and capitalism.
    You seem to have a deep-seated aversion to big corporations which has little merit. You continue to apply exceptions and anomalies of the corporate industry to the vast majority and that's the flaw in your argument.
    Last edited by Joe Capitalist; 04-15-2018 at 08:05 AM.
    Republican Congressman Ken Buck:
    “We’re at a time in American politics, that I am not going to lie on behalf of my presidential candidate, on behalf of my party. And I’m very sad that others in my party have taken the position that, as long as we get the White House, it doesn’t really matter what we say,”



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    Quote Originally Posted by Threedee View Post
    Pretty sure the drama and conflict was all generated by the segregationists.
    What killed him was the racists, and they still would. Give me Malcolm X, every time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOP View Post
    LOL...the obsession never ends, does it?...poor Fowl....that was quite the post, though...sad....so sad...when are you going to realize that no one pays a Bit of attention to your comments about me? Zero...try as you might...
    You pay attention to them, every one of them, and I imagine you're the audience she is aiming for.

    Seems she gets you every time.

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    Hello DonaldvoTrumpovich,

    $12 billion returned to consumers by the CFPB, and you're saying this is an anamoly?

    $12 billion is justification for the existence of the government agency which Trump has essentially shut down by installing as acting director, consumer's most ardent enemy.

    Regulations are not being enforced.

    Consumers are getting ripped off.

    Some of those consumers are undoubtedly poor black people at payday loan joints and buy-here-pay-here car lots.

    Ripping off poor people doesn't make America great.
    Personal Ignore Policy PIP: I like civil discourse. I will give you all the respect in the world if you respect me. Mouth off to me, or express overt racism, you will be PERMANENTLY Ignore Listed. Zero tolerance. No exceptions. I'll never read a word you write, even if quoted by another, nor respond to you, nor participate in your threads. ... Ignore the shallow. Cherish the thoughtful. Long Live Civil Discourse, Mutual Respect, and Good Debate! ps: Feel free to adopt my PIP. It works well.

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