Once you eliminate the impossible...

[hypGnosis]

Doesn't matter who said it. It's the truth. It is impossible for something to create itself. That has to mean it had a Creator. If you see a painting, it's because someone painted it. If you watch a movie, someone created that. The law of causality has no exceptions. Everything requires a cause for it's existence. That's a scientific fact. Why should the universe be any different?

Wait a minute ... wait a minute ... stop the presses!!!

Aren't you, The Ugly Truth, a proponent of the First Cause?

Don't you experience a tinch of cognitive dissonance when you assert "Everything requires a cause for it's existence" and also assert that a First Cause exists (or used to exist)?

[Frank Apisa]

How many times do I have to say this? No one created God. He has always existed. He is the uncaused cause of everything. Everything that has a physical existence was caused to exist.

YOU WROTE:

Doesn't matter who said it. It's the truth. It is impossible for something to create itself. That has to mean it had a Creator. If you see a painting, it's because someone painted it. If you watch a movie, someone created that. The law of causality has no exceptions. Everything requires a cause for it's existence. That's a scientific fact. Why should the universe be any different?

Are you now saying you did not mean that?

[The Ugly Truth]

Wait a minute ... wait a minute ... stop the presses!!!

Aren't you, The Ugly Truth, a proponent of the First Cause?

Don't you experience a tinch of cognitive dissonance when you assert "Everything requires a cause for it's existence" and also assert that a First Cause exists (or used to exist)?

Everything that has a physical existence requires a cause. God is not physical. The laws of physics do not apply to Him. He created them, after all. Understand now?

[kudzu]

Everything that has a physical existence requires a cause. God is not physical. The laws of physics do not apply to Him. He created them, after all. Understand now?

So why did God stop with the supernatural events like worldwide floods and burning bushes?

[Frank Apisa]

How many times do I have to say this? No one created God. He has always existed. He is the uncaused cause of everything. Everything that has a physical existence was caused to exist.

Here's the problem, Ugly.

Instead of doing things the scientific way...

...you are starting with where you want to end up...

...and then retrofitting your argument to accommodate that "end."

You are starting with an assertion...namely, that a "creator god" HAS TO exist.

Stop that.

It is not scientific, it is not reasonable, it is not logical, it is not mathematically correct.

The ultimate question is: Is there a GOD?

To arrive there, one must first tackle the question: "Is it possible for humans to determine if any gods exist?"

I can think of no way to do that using logic, reason, science, or math. To me it seems the only thing we can do...is to make a guess. (We can call our guess a "belief" if we feel uncomfortable with acknowledging that it is a guess.)

Ontological arguments are poor attempts at dealing with the question...and yours is especially deficient.

But...no telling.

Let's discuss: Can we determine if any gods exist?

[Frank Apisa]

Everything that has a physical existence requires a cause. God is not physical. The laws of physics do not apply to Him. He created them, after all. Understand now?

Those are all untested assertions.

Understand now?

[The Ugly Truth]

Those are all untested assertions.

Understand now?

In that case, you should have no problem giving us an example of something creating itself.

[evince]

no one has claimed something created its self


why do you keep lying about that ?

[evince]

Everything that has a physical existence requires a cause. God is not physical. The laws of physics do not apply to Him. He created them, after all. Understand now?

if god is energy of any kind who created that energy?

[Frank Apisa]

In that case, you should have no problem giving us an example of something creating itself.

Why do that?


You've already acknowledge that there is AT LEAST ONE thing that was never created.

Perhaps this thing we humans call "the universe" was never created...but instead, always existed.

The notion that IT was created is just an unsupported assertion on your part.

[The Ugly Truth]

if god is energy of any kind who created that energy?

I took you off my ignore list, just to see if you finally had something intelligent to say. Don't know why I bothered. Back on the ignore list you go. LOL!

[Frank Apisa]

if god is energy of any kind who created that energy?

This thing we humans call "the universe"...may be nothing more than energy also.

Ugly simply is not able to get that...or to acknowledge it.

He wants that intermediate step...the middle man...the god he wants so much to show "exists."

[evince]

I took you off my ignore list, just to see if you finally had something intelligent to say. Don't know why I bothered. Back on the ignore list you go. LOL!

how jesusy of you

even when you don't answer me others see my posts that prove you have no logic behind your slobberings

[The Ugly Truth]

Why do that?


You've already acknowledge that there is AT LEAST ONE thing that was never created.

Perhaps this thing we humans call "the universe" was never created...but instead, always existed.

The notion that IT was created is just an unsupported assertion on your part.

If the universe had no Creator, then why does it exist? You say you believe in science. Science gave us the law of cause and effect. Are you saying they got it wrong? And the universe could not have always existed, because of the law of entropy. If the universe was eternal, there would be no energy left. The universe had a beginning. It was created. No other explanation makes any sense.

[evince]

This thing we humans call "the universe"...may be nothing more than energy also.

Ugly simply is not able to get that...or to acknowledge it.

He wants that intermediate step...the middle man...the god he wants so much to show "exists."

that is fine with me



if it makes him a better person than fine


the rub begins when he gets MAD at others for not sharing his factless ideas


there is a reason it has been labeled Faith


it is not fact based


its in his/her heart and head


so he/she rails at us for not being wired to be soothed by the same ideas as him/her.


railing at us for NOT being just like him/her.



pretty unjesusy


many of these so called religious people seem to leave the love and caring Jesus displayed behind without a thought.


they need to go back and read just Jesus' words for a year or two so they can understand what it is they supposedly believe