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Thread: Top Russia experts say Putin’s not strong - it’s we who’ve grown weak*

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    Default Top Russia experts say Putin’s not strong - it’s we who’ve grown weak*

    In December 1989, a young KGB officer was stationed in Dresden watching the collapse of communism when a crowd tried to storm his office. He rang a local Red Army tank unit to request help, only to be told they could not intervene. ‘We can’t do anything without orders from Moscow,’ he was told. ‘And Moscow is silent.’

    The officer’s name was Vladimir Putin. A decade later this diminutive spy had risen to become ruler of Russia – and he vowed his giant nation would never again be silent.

    There is no doubt he has achieved that aim, having increased military spending twentyfold since taking office, started several conflicts in Europe, stepped into war in Syria and stirred up trouble from Warsaw to Washington.


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rown-weak.html

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    Excerpt:

    ‘They did not like him in St Petersburg,’ said Litvinenko, who served on the local assembly. ‘They remember Putin as taking bribes with the assistance of Mr Sechin.’

    Igor Sechin was Putin’s aide. Today he is one of Russia’s most powerful men who runs the state oil firm and insists even his helicopter has spoons made of gold. He symbolises the mafia cabal that has become rich by raping their country’s wealth and doing whatever it takes to stay loyal to Putin, from buying up media outlets that spew out propaganda to funding mercenaries abroad.

    Little has changed since St Petersburg beyond the ambition and scale. Putin was appointed prime minister in 1999 by a drunken president with dwindling authority – and instantly used hatred and terror to boost his popularity.

    In September that year a series of bombs ripped apart four blocks of flats, killing almost 300 Russians. Security operatives were caught planting one device, while a key political ally disclosed the site of another attack three days before it took place.

    Yet Putin used the slaughter to demonise Chechens and launch an onslaught on their republic. His popularity surged on a sea of patriotism, winning him the presidency months later.

    This showcased Putin’s tactics: stoking fear, inflaming patriotism with a patsy media – and spilling blood. ‘This is a regime founded on terror,’ said David Satter, an American writer. ’We’ve just seen the latest manifestation of this in the UK.’

    Western powers knew precisely the nature of Putin’s cruel regime from the start. Yet they chose to ignore his lies and contain, rather than confront, this malevolent man and his rapacious allies. Again and again we have seen this same appeasement of his tyranny: over wars in Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine; over theft of territory in Crimea; over the shooting down of a civilian airliner; over the killing of internal enemies; over cyber-warfare; even over murder in our own land with the assassination of another former spy.


    ( Is this considered strength?)

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    Western powers knew precisely the nature of Putin’s cruel regime from the start. Yet they chose to ignore his lies and contain, rather than confront, this malevolent man and his rapacious allies.
    congrats Tom. You've gone full blown Russia-phobe
    Kissinger: “demonization of Vladimir Putin is not a policy; it is an alibi for the absence of one.”
    ________

    Cold War 2.0 Russia hysteria is turning people’s brains into guacamole.
    We’ve got to find a way to snap out of the propaganda trance
    ________

    Buddha: "trust the person who seeks truth and mistrust the person who claims he has found it "
    1.2.3.4.5.6.7. All Good Children Go to Heaven

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    congrats Tom. You've gone full blown Russia-phobe
    No I haven't in the least, I have always thought the same. However I also realise that Putin isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but that doesn't mean we have to allow him to take the piss.

    Nothing has changed, I don't believe that Trump colluded with the Russians, I do believe that they attempted to affect the 2016 election, as they did with Brexit and the German elections. However I don't think they made any discernable difference.

    I might also add that Putin is not Russia, even if he tries to portray otherwise.

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    Last edited by cancel2 2022; 03-18-2018 at 07:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    No I haven't in the least, I have always thought the same. However I also realise that Putin isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but that doesn't mean we have to allow him to take the piss.

    Nothing has changed, I don't believe that Trump colluded with the Russians, I do believe that they attempted to affect the 2016 election, as they did with Brexit and the German elections. However I don't think they made any discernable difference.

    I might also add that Putin is not Russia, even if he tries to portray otherwise.

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    whatever takes the piss means..
    The article is 100% paranoia packaged in an anti-Putin screed.

    I realize the west likes it's dotards for Russia. It's why Bill Clinton worked to get Yeltsin elected.
    But I do not have any quarrels withe legitimate Russian nationalism, and more then I have with British or Yankee nationalism.
    Leaders are allowed to choose the best course for their country. The problem is the west thinks NATO expansion should just be acceptable to Putin as it's Russia's fate. It's not necessarily so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    whatever takes the piss means..
    The article is 100% paranoia packaged in an anti-Putin screed.

    I realize the west likes it's dotards for Russia. It's why Bill Clinton worked to get Yeltsin elected.
    But I do not have any quarrels withe legitimate Russian nationalism, and more then I have with British or Yankee nationalism.
    Leaders are allowed to choose the best course for their country. The problem is the west thinks NATO expansion should just be acceptable to Putin as it's Russia's fate. It's not necessarily so.
    If Russia wants to pretend like it can just keep living in the past—before the USSR collapsed—then it can continue to overreach, continuously draw more Western sanctions, and watch its economic and political institutions fail all over again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    whatever takes the piss means..
    The article is 100% paranoia packaged in an anti-Putin screed.

    I realize the west likes it's dotards for Russia. It's why Bill Clinton worked to get Yeltsin elected.
    But I do not have any quarrels withe legitimate Russian nationalism, and more then I have with British or Yankee nationalism.
    Leaders are allowed to choose the best course for their country. The problem is the west thinks NATO expansion should just be acceptable to Putin as it's Russia's fate. It's not necessarily so.
    the world hates Putin


    they will never share your love of Putin

    Putin is a sociopathic Mob leader with a short time to live

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    Quote Originally Posted by Threedee View Post
    If Russia wants to pretend like it can just keep living in the past—before the USSR collapsed—then it can continue to overreach, continuously draw more Western sanctions, and watch its economic and political institutions fail all over again.
    sanctions are not because of Russian over-reach.
    sanctions are because the US meddled in the Uk's maiden, and turned a protest into a revolution to benefit the Kyiv faction.
    the Ukraine was a border state before we meddled -effectively ignoring the Budapest Memorandum-
    in order to...what was it exactly? Oh yeah. Weaken Putins economy.

    Putin isn't a lap dog, nor should be be,and seizing Crimea became a forced move

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    Quote Originally Posted by Havana Moon View Post
    and he vowed his giant nation would never again be silent.
    Russia is 'giant' in three things: land area, military spending and pretensions.

    In terms of GDP it's on a par with Canada and Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    whatever takes the piss means..
    The article is 100% paranoia packaged in an anti-Putin screed.

    I realize the west likes it's dotards for Russia. It's why Bill Clinton worked to get Yeltsin elected.
    But I do not have any quarrels withe legitimate Russian nationalism, and more then I have with British or Yankee nationalism.
    Leaders are allowed to choose the best course for their country. The problem is the west thinks NATO expansion should just be acceptable to Putin as it's Russia's fate. It's not necessarily so.
    Yes I don't necessarily disagree but Putin is like most dictators, they will use the patriotism and the 'enemy abroad' cards when in trouble. The Russian economy has been stalling badly and the attempt to kill off fracking in the US has largely failed.

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    anatta (03-18-2018), evince (03-18-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    whatever takes the piss means..
    The article is 100% paranoia packaged in an anti-Putin screed.

    I realize the west likes it's dotards for Russia. It's why Bill Clinton worked to get Yeltsin elected.
    But I do not have any quarrels withe legitimate Russian nationalism, and more then I have with British or Yankee nationalism.
    Leaders are allowed to choose the best course for their country. The problem is the west thinks NATO expansion should just be acceptable to Putin as it's Russia's fate. It's not necessarily so.
    Oh and taking the piss means taking liberties and not worrying about the consequences.

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...g%20the%20piss



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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquillus in Exile View Post
    Russia is 'giant' in three things: land area, military spending and pretensions.

    In terms of GDP it's on a par with Canada and Australia.
    their physical military is crumbling

    they all inned with cyber crime to fight wars


    that and poisoning people

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    sanctions are not because of Russian over-reach.
    sanctions are because the US meddled in the Uk's maiden, and turned a protest into a revolution to benefit the Kyiv faction.
    the Ukraine was a border state before we meddled -effectively ignoring the Budapest Memorandum-
    in order to...what was it exactly? Oh yeah. Weaken Putins economy.

    Putin isn't a lap dog, nor should be be,and seizing Crimea became a forced move
    you are a Putin lap dog

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    Quote Originally Posted by anatta View Post
    sanctions are not because of Russian over-reach.
    sanctions are because the US meddled in the Uk's maiden, and turned a protest into a revolution to benefit the Kyiv faction.
    the Ukraine was a border state before we meddled -effectively ignoring the Budapest Memorandum-
    in order to...what was it exactly? Oh yeah. Weaken Putins economy.

    Putin isn't a lap dog, nor should be be,and seizing Crimea became a forced move
    All BS, but, when it comes to meddling, perhaps Putin could keep his operatives out of London, and not be conducting dangerous assassinations on UK soil.

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