Philosophy: Why Bother?

[sear]

"I agree with RB's response.
This is NOT a dress rehearsal; it is the life I am going to live...and I intend to enjoy it and be as content in it as possible." FA #13

Who disagrees with that?
Who declares: That's enough of that darned enjoyment stuff! From now on it's suffering ALL THE WAY for me !!

It's too silly and obvious an assertion to formalize. "Water is wet."

Obviously the criteria of happiness varies enormously, and what is a satisfying, rewarding lifestyle to one person might be Hell on Earth to others.

So how should one decide? And what is the sanity check?

"If you want to think that is hedonism...and that "hedonism" is "bad" in some way...do so. In my opinion, you are the less for having done it.
Lighten up, Sear. Your other posts indicate you are above this." FA #13

?!
"Words mean things." Rush Limbaugh

"Enjoy life as much as you can." FA

Some people don't mind punching a clock.
But even when I was earning a steady paycheck, there were things I enjoyed doing more; sailing the yacht for example.

So if one is to faithfully follow your formula quoted verbatim immediately above, when one is commuting to work, should such enlightened persons skip the job, board the yacht, and enjoy the day sailing instead?
That would seem to be a faithful implementation of your formula.

"If you are worrying about what may happen billions of years from now...you've got a major problem." FA

Thanks.
Perhaps.
But I'm not.
I provided that as information, as context. I didn't offer it as a basis to justify skipping work, risking being fired.

"By the way...your star-ending sequencing is wrong.
Our sun is a yellow dwarf...and will expand to a red giant...and THEN go to a white dwarf." FA

Oh.
Thanks.
Yeah, astrophysics, not my strong suit. But it's the red giant part that matters.

[Cypress]

This topic as current as you, right here, right now.
Every posting member participates in this forum.

And we all dine, check the mail, do our job, etc.

For centuries the American tradition was to work to create for the next generation a world better than their own.

The trend held up fairly well, for a while.

It may be comforting to imagine an infinite future which unrelentingly trends toward improvement.

But astronomers predict that when our sun, our white dwarf star goes red giant, it will subsume Earth's orbit, and life on Earth will go from medium rare to well done.

Even if we find refuge in another, younger solar system, that refuge will (on cosmic scale) only be temporary. For cosmic heat death is inevitable.

Whether we'll still be biological by then, some bio/artificial hybrid, or whether fully artificial, the end will be near.

Food or fuel would have to be produced artificially, and with the convenient energy flux of stars all gone, our power source would soon be exhausted.

Therefore:
is it not all for naught?

Thus the topic question.
What is your fundamental motive for doing what you're doing right now? "Why Bother?" if it's all ultimately futile?

"I have lived through much, and now I think I have found what is needed for happiness. A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people to whom it is easy to do good, and who are not accustomed to have it done to them; then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbor -- such is my idea of happiness. And then, on the top of all that, you for a mate, and children perhaps -- what more can the heart of man desire?" - Leo Tolstoy

"People try to do all sorts of clever and difficult things to improve life instead of doing the simplest, easiest thing—refusing to participate in activities that make life bad." - Leo Tolstoy

"People usually think that progress consists in the increase of knowledge, in the improvement of life, but that isn't so. Progress consists only in the greater clarification of answers to the basic questions of life. The truth is always accessible to a man. It can't be otherwise, because a man's soul is a divine spark, the truth itself. It's only a matter of removing from this divine spark (the truth) everything that obscures it. Progress consists, not in the increase of truth, but in freeing it from its wrappings. The truth is obtained like gold, not by letting it grow bigger, but by washing off from it everything that isn't gold." - Leo Tolstoy

[sear]

C #17

You've reminded me:

"To laugh often, and love much, to win the respect of intelligent persons and the affection of children, to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others, to give of ones self, to leave the world a lot better, to have played and sung with exhaltation, to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived, that is to have succeeded." Ralph Waldo Emerson 1803 - 1882

But Leo Toystore is a good reference two.

"Broad-mindedness is the result of flattening high-mindedness out." George Saintsbury

[Frank Apisa]

Who disagrees with that?
Who declares: That's enough of that darned enjoyment stuff! From now on it's suffering ALL THE WAY for me !!

It's too silly and obvious an assertion to formalize. "Water is wet."

Obviously the criteria of happiness varies enormously, and what is a satisfying, rewarding lifestyle to one person might be Hell on Earth to others.

So how should one decide? And what is the sanity check?

?!
"Words mean things." Rush Limbaugh





Some people don't mind punching a clock.
But even when I was earning a steady paycheck, there were things I enjoyed doing more; sailing the yacht for example.

So if one is to faithfully follow your formula quoted verbatim immediately above, when one is commuting to work, should such enlightened persons skip the job, board the yacht, and enjoy the day sailing instead?
That would seem to be a faithful implementation of your formula.

Thanks.
Perhaps.
But I'm not.
I provided that as information, as context. I didn't offer it as a basis to justify skipping work, risking being fired.

Oh.
Thanks.
Yeah, astrophysics, not my strong suit. But it's the red giant part that matters.

Your formulation here indicates that you most likely do not understand "contentment"...nor the idea of "playing the cards you are dealt to the best advantage possible...even if it means folding."

Fine.

As nearly as I can see, one works it (contentment, if not happiness) out for one's self...rather than attempting to make a generalized statement of how it should work for everyone.

I commented on your theme...and leave you to what you will make of your own life.

[Cypress]

C #17

You've reminded me:

But Leo Toystore is a good reference two.

"Broad-mindedness is the result of flattening high-mindedness out." George Saintsbury

Nicely done.

The thing that appeals to me about the Tolstoyan philosophy is that a life well lived is not measured in material possessions, superficial activities, and physical comforts - aka, things that can be quantified and measured.
I believe it comes down to a quest for the intangibles of truth, knowledge, and respect for one's self and for others. Those seemingly simple things can take a life time trying to attain.

[Mr.Badguy]

The practice of thinking far into the future is one that intrigues me greatly. Think of how far we've come in only the last 150 years or so. That's a damn blip on the running clock of Earth let alone the entire universe.

By nature worrying about how pointless a pointless thing is, is pointless.

[sear]

"Your formulation here indicates that you most likely do not understand "contentment"..." FA #19

Au contair mon frare.

I understand manifest "contentment" well enough to know that a situation that would leave one man delighted can leave another man miserable, in agony.

C #20 has picked up on this, & articulated it well. The conditions that promote are subjective, and vary widely. And the parameters of assessing it are not quantifiable.
- I have mine.
- You have yours.
- There's some overlap. We may both like the same kind of salad.
- But there are sure to be differences as well.

"nor the idea of "playing the cards you are dealt to the best advantage possible...even if it means folding."

Life may be a game to some. But it is vastly more complicated than poker.
It's a little poker, a little football, a little yacht racing, a little chess, and too much hopscotch.

"As nearly as I can see, one works it (contentment, if not happiness) out for one's self...rather than attempting to make a generalized statement of how it should work for everyone."

Probably.
That's part of what renders the topic so interesting.
There are so many differing paths, vectored toward such a broad spectrum of pursuits, and yet they all lead to contentment.

"I commented on your theme...and leave you to what you will make of your own life." FA #19

I wasn't aware that was in doubt or question.
Likewise.

" aka, things that can be quantified and measured." C #20

Indeed. And considering the tumultuous history of his native land, little wonder he was so deliberate about it.
And ironically, under Putin, the wound still festers.

[sear]

PS

"The practice of thinking far into the future is one that intrigues me greatly. Think of how far we've come in only the last 150 years or so. That's a damn blip on the running clock of Earth let alone the entire universe." MB

The life your great grandfather lived may not have been very different from the life his great grandfather lived.

But the life you live might be unrecognizable to your great grandson.

It is not merely that the world is changing. It is that the rate of change is accelerating exponentially.

And we face challenges humanity may not be prepared for.
I caught a news report earlier today that a $60K robot designed to cook burgers washed out. The reason for the failure? The humans couldn't set the burgers on the grill fast enough.

Automation is taking over.
- not just telephone operators
- not just elevators without the guy in the uniform to operate it for you
- not just bank tellers encroached upon by ATM's
- It's also factory workers
- aerial drones
- warehouse workers
- and the list continues to grow.

What will we do when robots do the work, and humans are unemployed? How will our economy avoid collapse?
And then there's terrorism, global warming, population explosion, global hunger, etc.

Thus this topic.

[Mott the Hoople]

Nicely done.

The thing that appeals to me about the Tolstoyan philosophy is that a life well lived is not measured in material possessions, superficial activities, and physical comforts - aka, things that can be quantified and measured.
I believe it comes down to a quest for the intangibles of truth, knowledge, and respect for one's self and for others. Those seemingly simple things can take a life time trying to attain.

You’ve obviously have never driven a Porsche with a hot chick sitting next to you.

[Mott the Hoople]

BUT !!
One of the risks is those that don't ask the question, or when asked refuse to answer is:

they can reach their death bed before it dawns on them. That's a tragedy.

And the benefit of asking the question long before death is to present the opportunity of mid-course correction.

Sarah Shays used to be a radio personality.
But she could see the complications for those living in Afghanistan. So she decided to up stakes and try to help.
She moved there, and started a business of making soap from material available in Afghanistan.

The most comfortable rut is the one you're in.

Ham sandwich Sear. Don’t lose focus on me now. Toasted or plain? Is it real? Is it satisfying or is it a figment of our imagination? Is just a starting point to feed our body or is it food for your soul? If there’s a chicken soup for the soul why not a ham sandwich for the soul? Maybe that’s just not kosher.

[cancel2 2022]

This topic as current as you, right here, right now.
Every posting member participates in this forum.

And we all dine, check the mail, do our job, etc.

For centuries the American tradition was to work to create for the next generation a world better than their own.

The trend held up fairly well, for a while.

It may be comforting to imagine an infinite future which unrelentingly trends toward improvement.

But astronomers predict that when our sun, our white dwarf star goes red giant, it will subsume Earth's orbit, and life on Earth will go from medium rare to well done.

Even if we find refuge in another, younger solar system, that refuge will (on cosmic scale) only be temporary. For cosmic heat death is inevitable.

Whether we'll still be biological by then, some bio/artificial hybrid, or whether fully artificial, the end will be near.

Food or fuel would have to be produced artificially, and with the convenient energy flux of stars all gone, our power source would soon be exhausted.

Therefore:
is it not all for naught?

Thus the topic question.
What is your fundamental motive for doing what you're doing right now? "Why Bother?" if it's all ultimately futile?

You're talking about events billions of years in the future!!!

Sent from my Lenovo K8 using Tapatalk

[RB 60]

R6 #6

Reportedly The New York Times is written at the 4th grade reading level. I try to keep it within reach of most posters & lurkers.

s #5 may make more sense to you, if you understand it's a responsive reply to: " I have, and will continue to, enjoy it the best I can until it ends. " R6

* Excerpted from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition © 1996 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO Corporation; further reproduction and distribution in accordance with the Copyright Law of the United States. All rights reserved.

So what's your point? You throw out a word and it's definition basically defining what I wrote in simpler terms that answered your question.

[sear]

MH #25
Too much metaphor. If you want constructive dialogue with me, be literal, specific, & correct / valid.

HM #26
Only for context.
The topic applies to TODAY !! RIGHT NOW !!

"So what's your point?" R6 #27

Is a blindfolded life worth living?

[RB 60]

MH #25
Too much metaphor. If you want constructive dialogue with me, be literal, specific, & correct / valid.

HM #26
Only for context.
The topic applies to TODAY !! RIGHT NOW !!

Is a blindfolded life worth living?

What makes you think my life is "blindfolded"? My reply was a direct and simple answer to your question. I couldn't care less what happens in the distant future because I don't believe in a physical reincarnation. I have no interest in playing silly word games. If you want to make a point, make it.

[sear]

"What makes you think my life is "blindfolded"?" R6 #29

What makes you think I think that?

"My reply was a direct and simple answer to your question." R6

And mine to yours.

"I couldn't care less what happens in the distant future because" R6

I deduce you are not able to make the logical connection. I can help with that.

Many contributing to this topic assert that their objectives include leaving to posterity an improved world.
The end of time reflection is merely reductio ad absurdum context.

Not in the least clear to me why context is regarded as a member of al Qaida on this topic.

FYI, context is actually not a terrorist, or an enemy.