The universe requires a Creator

[PostmodernProphet]

I can understand why you are pretending to ignore me now.

If you Bible claims that there is no such thing as an agnostic...it has proved itself to be questionable, because there are huge numbers of agnostics.

"Judgement Day!" That is the day this god you "love" decides whether it is going to reward people like you with "eternal life"...and people like me with torture and pain for ETERNITY.

Yeah...a guy like you would "love" something like that.

the reference isn't to whether you exist, but to the fact that all unbelievers, including the agnostics, will share the same consequences.........not sure why you are complaining about judgment day.......its exactly what you have chosen........

[Frank Apisa]

I haven't even engaged in the argument that the universe requires a creator, nor have you......all you've done is express your denial......that is not an argument......

what I have done is engage in an argument over your claim the universe has no beginning, ironically your own blind guess.......of course you will deny you are arguing that as well........

but you do raise a good point......since you are boring, I should go argue with someone else......

I have NEVER argued that the universe has no beginning.

I have argued that the universe MAY NOT HAVE HAD A BEGINNING.

THE UNIVERSE may be eternal. This despite the seeming Big Bang start to what we humans call "the universe."

We do not know...the scientists DO NOT KNOW...Albert Einstein DID NOT KNOW...Stephen Hawking DOES NOT KNOW.

You, unfortunately for you, are not able to acknowledge you do not know...and the guy who started this thread cannot either. Too bad that, because all it takes is a sense of integrity and a bit of honesty...which you two apparently do not possess.

The question of whether or not gods exist...has been discussed and debated by the finest minds that have lived on this planet...and they have not been able to come up with an answer. We are not going to do it here. The guy who started this thread is not going to simply declare that a god is required; have someone like you agree...and PRESTO...the question is answered.

Amazing you are not able to see the absurdity of that.

Anyway, I am glad you finally realized you should go argue with someone else. I doubt you have the spine or integrity to do that, though...and I think you will continue to trade barbs with me. I suspect you don't have what it takes to actually make a move like that.

[Frank Apisa]

the reference isn't to whether you exist, but to the fact that all unbelievers, including the agnostics, will share the same consequences.........not sure why you are complaining about judgment day.......its exactly what you have chosen........

Jesus H. Christ!

First that crap about changing what he said from "the universe" to "THIS universe"...and now you are trying to change this also.

He said, "There is no such thing as an agnostic, according to the Bible. "

What the hell are you...his interpreter?

If you are...use what the guy actually says or writes...rather than making up stuff you see as more worthy!

[Frank Apisa]

Just to attempt to get this thread back on track for a bit…the notion that “since this is a creation”…a “creator” is required…is self-serving nonsense.

This MAY NOT BE a creation…no matter that this thing we humans call “the universe” appears to have come about via properties we are still trying to understand.

And this thing we humans call “the universe” has been growing throughout human history from a pancake flat object smack dab in the center of EVERYTHING…to “humans inhabit a rock circling a not especially impressive star in a not especially impressive galaxy" among hundreds of billions of galaxies.

One hundred and twenty years ago...science did not even know about other galaxies. Two hundred and fifty years ago…science thought the entire of the universe was what we can see in the heavens…which really are only the stars in the surrounding area of the spiral arm in which our sun is located.

A hundred years from now our understanding of “the universe” may be as different from what it is today…as what today’s understanding is from what Ptolemy supposed back in Egypt.

And so forth!

[Grugore]

You're speaking of a supernatural god that created himself and YOU want to talk sense? PRICELESS!

How is that any worse than believing that the universe created itself?

[Frank Apisa]

How is that any worse than believing that the universe created itself?

Still in that mode that "the universe" has to be a "creation"...so that you can claim that god of yours is its creator.

Seems to me that god of yours is too busy being offended if people eat meat and dairy products at the same meal...

...to be creating any universes.

[domer76]

How is that any worse than believing that the universe created itself?

I have to laugh at your lame massively lame OP. You maintain things cannot create themselves but hang your hat on a supernatural being that created himself. Then, you want to talk sense?

Priceless!

[Grugore]

I have to laugh at your lame massively lame OP. You maintain things cannot create themselves but hang your hat on a supernatural being that created himself. Then, you want to talk sense?

Priceless!

God was not created. He has always existed.

[domer76]

God was not created. He has always existed.

Says who?

[Frank Apisa]

I have to laugh at your lame massively lame OP. You maintain things cannot create themselves but hang your hat on a supernatural being that created himself. Then, you want to talk sense?

Priceless!

For him...the universe had to be "created"...but his god does not have to be created.

No cutting out the middleman with folk like him.

If there were a thread entitled, "The existence of a god requires a creator"...he would be one of the people talking about the absurdity of the assertion.

But he is blind to the absurdity of his assertion.

[Grugore]

Says who?

The Bible. But since that's probably not good enough for, it's just plain common sense. There has to be a first cause for everything. That cause would have to have existed for eternity. There is a scientific explanation for this. It's called an infinite regression. Which is what you would have without God. Btw, an infinite regression is impossible.

[domer76]

The Bible. But since that's probably not good enough for, it's just plain common sense. There has to be a first cause for everything. That cause would have to have existed for eternity. There is a scientific explanation for this. It's called an infinite regression. Which is what you would have without God. Btw, an infinite regression is impossible.

“The Bible is the word of God"
"How can you be sure it's the word of God?"
"Because the Bible tells us so"
"Why believe the Bible?
"The Bible is infallible"
"How do you know it's infallible?"...

(Return to top)

[Grugore]

“The Bible is the word of God"
"How can you be sure it's the word of God?"
"Because the Bible tells us so"
"Why believe the Bible?
"The Bible is infallible"
"How do you know it's infallible?"...

(Return to top)

Your ignorance is really something to behold. I'd explain, but you just wouldn't get it.

[domer76]

Your ignorance is really something to behold. I'd explain, but you just wouldn't get it.

lol

Does the concept of circular argument escape you?

Simpleton

[Grugore]

lol

Does the concept of circular argument escape you?

Simpleton

I do not use circular arguments. I believe in God because of the abundance of evidence, not the least of which is prophecy. Here's a question for you. If you got 40 people together and told them to write a book, two thirds of which was prophecy, each working on a different part, how do you think it would turn out? It would be a complete mess. Full of contradictions and errors. It would be humanly impossible. The Bible was written by roughly 40 different authors over a 1500 year period, and it is internally consistent with no errors or contradictions. Not only does it not contradict itself, it is 100 percent correct in everything it says. It has been proven through both historical records and archeology. The evidence is there.