The universe requires a Creator

[PostmodernProphet]

He spoke about "the" universe. You were talking about "this" universe.

we are all talking about the same universe....if you don't choose to engage in the discussion, you are free to stop.....

This thing we humans call the universe almost certainly had a beginning..

thank you for acknowledging the truth.....

.although the jury is still out about the ingredients that were already here in order for "what we humans call the universe" to "begin."

if all the ingredients were here and it did not begin, then the universe would require a "cause"

Chances are "begin" is used in this part of the conversation in quite a different way than "begin" often is used.

no.......we are talking about inception.......you can call it the Big Bang, you can call it "Let there be....." in Hebrew........you can even call them farts if you want to.........but beginning is beginning...

We are not discussing that.

if you don't want to discuss that you can go somewhere else and discuss what you want to discuss.......we are talking about "the creation of the universe".....

the beginning........he believes that it was created by God, some argue that it was created by random shit happening randomly, you believe some weird shit that you pretend isn't belief.......

[Frank Apisa]

we are all talking about the same universe....if you don't choose to engage in the discussion, you are free to stop.....


thank you for acknowledging the truth.....



if all the ingredients were here and it did not begin, then the universe would require a "cause"



no.......we are talking about inception.......you can call it the Big Bang, you can call it "Let there be....." in Hebrew........you can even call them farts if you want to.........but beginning is beginning...



if you don't want to discuss that you can go somewhere else and discuss what you want to discuss.......we are talking about "the creation of the universe".....

the beginning........he believes that it was created by God, some argue that it was created by random shit happening randomly, you believe some weird shit that you pretend isn't belief.......

I do not know if the universe is a creation or not.

YOU do not know either. The only significant difference between us on that issue is that I have the integrity and honesty to acknowledge that I do not know...while you are lacking both.

I AM SAYING THAT I DO NOT KNOW...not that crap that you were trying to sell in your remarks up above.

So...you're up at bat again.

MY bet: You will whiff again.

[PostmodernProphet]

I AM SAYING THAT I DO NOT KNOW... .

then why are you wasting our time discussing it?......

all your arguments boil down to "since I don't believe you, you are wrong"........

[Frank Apisa]

then why are you wasting our time discussing it?......

I can't waste YOUR time, PP...you are wasting it...if it is being wasted. (You are not very good at this, are you.)

...all your arguments boil down to "since I don't believe you, you are wrong"........

To anyone who can read...and who has a modicum of intelligence...my arguments boil down to "I do not know if the universe...if existence...IS A CREATION OR NOT.


You are having trouble with that.

Lemme help you: YOU DO NOT KNOW IF THE UNIVERSE IS A CREATION OR NOT EITHER.

Now...all you have to do is to develop the integrity and honesty to acknowledge that.

(Okay...that last part WILL be a tough assignment for you. But work on it. Who knows...maybe you can pull it off.)

[PostmodernProphet]

I do not know if the universe is a creation or not.

you are record as believing the universe began.......let's say you are right and there was a bunch of matter and energy somewhere not in the universe that "came here"......what triggered it?....

[PostmodernProphet]

I can't waste YOUR time, PP...you are wasting it...if it is being wasted. (You are not very good at this, are you.)



To anyone who can read...and who has a modicum of intelligence...my arguments boil down to "I do not know if the universe...if existence...IS A CREATION OR NOT.


You are having trouble with that.

Lemme help you: YOU DO NOT KNOW IF THE UNIVERSE IS A CREATION OR NOT EITHER.

Now...all you have to do is to develop the integrity and honesty to acknowledge that.

(Okay...that last part WILL be a tough assignment for you. But work on it. Who knows...maybe you can pull it off.)

????.......I don't need to "know".......I have chosen to believe.......

[Frank Apisa]

you are record as believing the universe began.......

I am on record as saying it APPEARS as though it began. Science indicates a Big Bang. Something like that seems to have happened. It does seem as though this thing we humans call "the universe" had a beginning of sorts.

let's say you are right and there was a bunch of matter and energy somewhere not in the universe that "came here"......what triggered it?....

I DO NOT KNOW...

...AND NEITHER DO YOU.

I have no problem with you blindly guessing that "a god" caused it.

I'd prefer not to guess...and stick with "I DO NOT KNOW."

I also have no problem with the fact that you do not have the honesty and integrity to acknowledge that you do not know.

[PostmodernProphet]

I am on record as saying it APPEARS as though it began. Science indicates a Big Bang. Something like that seems to have happened. It does seem as though this thing we humans call "the universe" had a beginning of sorts.




I DO NOT KNOW...

...AND NEITHER DO YOU.

I have no problem with you blindly guessing that "a god" caused it.

I'd prefer not to guess...and stick with "I DO NOT KNOW."

I also have no problem with the fact that you do not have the honesty and integrity to acknowledge that you do not know.

its boring trying to argue with someone who's only response is "I don't know".......its a shame agnostics are so wishy-washy.....

[Grugore]

its boring trying to argue with someone who's only response is "I don't know".......its a shame agnostics are so wishy-washy.....

There is no such thing as an agnostic, according to the Bible. You either believe in God or you don't. And God has made it clear to us that He does exist. There will be no excuses on Judgement Day.

[domer76]

Why do I say this? For several reason, but the main one is that nothing physical can create itself. Therefore, the universe had a Creator. In order to refute this, you must first give an example of something creating itself. It's a scientific impossibility.

Nope. Sure don't.

We are finding that the majority of the universe is made up of stuff we can't see, feel or detect. Invisible shit of some sort. The only proof of it is that the stuff we CAN see and detect is insufficient to explain how everything works. Doesn't mean we need your god to fill in the blanks.

We don't need your creator to explain things we're still trying to figure out scientifically. Notice how your creator and his realm shrinks with every advancement of science. That's going to be the case, pally, until your god shrinks away to nothingness.

BTW, how did your god create himself?

[domer76]

Let me know when you're ready to talk sense, and I'll get back to you.

You're speaking of a supernatural god that created himself and YOU want to talk sense? PRICELESS!

[domer76]

There is no such thing as an agnostic, according to the Bible. You either believe in God or you don't. And God has made it clear to us that He does exist. There will be no excuses on Judgement Day.

Where did he make it clear to you that he does exist? Ruh roh! Not this, is it?

[Frank Apisa]

its boring trying to argue with someone who's only response is "I don't know".......its a shame agnostics are so wishy-washy.....

I am not being wishy-washy...I am being TRUTHFUL. (Look it up...try to understand what it means.)

And if you are bored...go argue with someone else.

The topic here is an assertion that the universe requires a "creator."

You don't actually want to argue that...you want to assert it and accept it as fact. Your problem with me is not that I am refusing to debate...but rather that my argument is so strong it defeats anything said in rebuttal.

The assertion "The universe requires a creator" CANNOT be substantiated. It is nothing more than a blind guess.

You seem to be bothered that I've called that to your attention.

[Frank Apisa]

There is no such thing as an agnostic, according to the Bible. You either believe in God or you don't. And God has made it clear to us that He does exist. There will be no excuses on Judgement Day.

I can understand why you are pretending to ignore me now.

If you Bible claims that there is no such thing as an agnostic...it has proved itself to be questionable, because there are huge numbers of agnostics.

"Judgement Day!" That is the day this god you "love" decides whether it is going to reward people like you with "eternal life"...and people like me with torture and pain for ETERNITY.

Yeah...a guy like you would "love" something like that.

[PostmodernProphet]

...but rather that my argument is so strong it defeats anything said in rebuttal.

The assertion "The universe requires a creator" CANNOT be substantiated. It is nothing more than a blind guess.
.

I haven't even engaged in the argument that the universe requires a creator, nor have you......all you've done is express your denial......that is not an argument......

what I have done is engage in an argument over your claim the universe has no beginning, ironically your own blind guess.......of course you will deny you are arguing that as well........

but you do raise a good point......since you are boring, I should go argue with someone else......